Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: MightyGiants on September 10, 2024, 11:22:03 AMHe was also passed over for the HC job by the Chargers

Staley wasn't a gem by any means.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on September 10, 2024, 11:37:37 AMStaley wasn't a gem by any means.

True, but clearly the Chargers saw something in Daboll that gave them pause.  It was especially odd in light that many outsiders thought he was the front runner for the job.

Quote from: MightyGiants on September 10, 2024, 11:39:30 AMTrue, but clearly the Chargers saw something in Daboll that gave them pause.  It was especially odd in light that many outsiders thought he was the front runner for the job.

That's because if it doesn't come from the Shanahan or Reid tree now people don't want them. No lie we are going to get to a point were teams are hiring QC guys off of those teams instead of OC/DCs off other good teams

I'm absolutely shocked a coach saddled with a below average passer is struggling.  It's just so rare in the NFL; we know from experience that good coaching can overcome bad QBs.  It happens all the time.  Just look at the greats: Bill Belichick, Sean Payton, Andy Reid, John Harbaugh, and Mike Tomlin.  Oh, wait, all the coaches failed with below average passers.  You can talk about coaching until you're blue in the face and it does NOT matter, unless you address the most important position in any team sport. Daboll is who he's always been...a terrible coach when saddled with below average QBs and a good one when he has a good QB, just like every NFL coach.  We have 20 years of data to support this notion...

Do I think he's a good coach?  No, I'm on record saying exactly what I expressed in the two lines above.  Without a top tier QB, he produces bottom tier offenses...I've been consistent with that thought.   Should we fire him?  Not until we give him a chance with a new QB.

Quote from: kingm56 on September 10, 2024, 11:46:01 AMI'm absolutely shocked a coach saddled with a below average passer is struggling.  It's just so rare in the NFL; we know from experience that good coaching can overcome bad QBs.  It happens all the time.  Just look at the greats: Bill Belichick, Sean Payton, Andy Reid, John Harbaugh, and Mike Tomlin.  Oh, wait, all the coaches failed with below average passers.  You can talk about coaching until you're blue in the face and it does NOT matter, unless you address the most important position in any team sport. Daboll is who he's always been...a terrible coach when saddled with below average QBs and a good one when he has a good QB, just like every NFL coach.  We have 20 years of data to support this notion...

Do I think he's a good coach?  No, I'm on record saying exactly what I expressed in the two lines above.  Without a top tier QB, he produces bottom tier offenses...I've been consistent with that thought.   Should we fire him?  Not until we give him a chance with a new QB.

Doug Pederson won a Super Bowl with Nick Foles

Bill Parcells won a Super Bowl with Jeff Hostetler

Brian Billick won a Super Bowl with Trent Dilfers

John Harbaugh won a Super Bowl with Joe Flacco

Quote from: MightyGiants on September 10, 2024, 11:58:26 AMDoug Pederson won a Super Bowl with Nick Foles

Bill Parcells won a Super Bowl with Jeff Hostetler

Brian Billick won a Super Bowl with Trent Dilfers

John Harbaugh won a Super Bowl with Joe Flacco

Pederson's Eagles had top-ranked offenses and defenses, if I recall correctly.

The other three had top defenses that made it easy for their offenses to get a lead and keep it.

Quote from: T200 on September 10, 2024, 12:00:26 PMPederson's Eagles had top-ranked offenses and defenses, if I recall correctly.

The other three had top defenses that made it easy for their offenses to get a lead and keep it.

That's how a coach can win a Super Bowl without an elite QB

Quote from: MightyGiants on September 10, 2024, 12:03:20 PMThat's how a coach can win a Super Bowl without an elite QB

It certainly can be done but it isn't the ideal way. Four times says it's not impossible.

Quote from: T200 on September 10, 2024, 12:06:59 PMIt certainly can be done but it isn't the ideal way. Four times says it's not impossible.

When you consider how many SBs have been won just by Mahomes and Brady (both of whom were teamed up with elite-level coaching), there aren't a lot of examples of other ways to win Super Bowls.

I'd argue that the director of scouting is just as important as the other three. You can be a good GM but if your scouts suck you aren't going to draft well. The Chiefs always seem to find hidden gems in rounds 3-6, we rarely do.

Quote from: MightyGiants on September 10, 2024, 12:09:25 PMWhen you consider how many SBs have been won just by Mahomes and Brady (both of whom were teamed up with elite-level coaching), there aren't a lot of examples of other ways to win Super Bowls.

But... the results are undeniable if you have that elite QB.

So the question becomes: what's easier to build - a team with an elite defense or finding an elite QB?

Quote from: T200 on September 10, 2024, 12:34:25 PMBut... the results are undeniable if you have that elite QB.

So the question becomes: what's easier to build - a team with an elite defense or finding an elite QB?

Assuming no elite quarterback was lost to poor player development, two elite quarterbacks have been drafted this century. So, there have been two in 25 drafts. Then, in each given draft, how many quarterbacks are drafted?  Those are not the best odds.

I found the QBs drafted from 2000 - 2021



Round   Total QBs Taken   
1   65   
2   23   
3   29   
4   31   
5   35   
6   48   
7   42   
Undrafted   16

Quote from: MightyGiants on September 09, 2024, 08:11:04 AMDISCLAIMER:  This is after the first game of the season and commentary this strong runs the risk of being an over-reaction

As expected (considering DJ played one of the worst games of his career) there is an abundance of threads talking about Daniel Jones.   Make no mistake, the way he played yesterday gave no one hope that the team has their QB for now and the future on the roster.

That said, there are three positions in successful teams that need to have quality people:

1) General Manager
2) Head Coach
3) Quarterback

I will say that some special head coaches have the ability to spill over into the GM's realm and the need for a quality GM is lessened.

After 3 offseasons and after the first game of the season, I see zero indications that the Giants have the answer at any of the three critical positions.  As discussed, Daniel Jones looked terrible.  However, that shouldn't take away from the reality that the rest of the team played poorly as well.   The team didn't appear to be as talented as the mediocre team they faced.   That is on GM Joe Schoen, who is responsible for the talent levels of this roster.

It's beginning to look like Brian Daboll is more of the mediocre coach that seemed to characterize most of his career, minus the few years he was coaching Josh Allen.   The team looked out-coached yesterday beyond not being as talented of a team.

I am not a big fan of change for the sake of change.  That's a great way to stay mediocre.  However, I am not convinced that if you give Schoen and Daboll more time, they can or will lead this team to contention.  It's sort of ironic.   Under Schoen and Daboll, they have been constantly seeking smart, tough, and dependable players.  Yet, I am beginning to wonder if Schoen and/or Daboll are among the smarter GMs or head coaches. 

As for Jones, another game or two like that, and I think the team needs to seriously consider benching him, especially with the injury guarantee in his contract looming.   Unfortunately, early indications are not promising in terms of the next draft class being a strong one for QBs.

There is a small chance this team can turn things around.  How much is another issue.  As of this writing, I am not optimistic for this team's near-term or long-term future.  I just don't see any easy answers or a clear path to turning this franchise around.

Good post MG. I am not ready to jump ship just quite yet though and while I share the same sentiment that it looks quite bleak even after just 1 week, I still feel like there is at least a bit of hope for a turnaround.

I was encouraged by the more 'humble' Daboll who seemed to be geniunely thinking he needed to do a better job in his scheming and play-calling. Not nearly trying to say it is all his fault but players can have huge turnarounds when the they feel the coaches shoulder some of the blame and then look for better ways to get them open and also make things easier for the QB. Again none of this might work if DJ is totally cooked, but I am not ready to jump ship there. I think the line is going to give him the time he needs this year if in fact he can still play (like I hope he still can).