Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Gmo11 on September 10, 2024, 10:23:44 AMThe roster is significantly better the QB is significantly worse.  He should be crushed for giving Jones that contract because if he hadn't this team would be a middle of the pack team or better.  It was likely a hard sell to Mara and the like that the team that just made the playoffs needs to move on from the QB and trade the RB but it's what he should have done and what I believe the plan was when he got here. 

They had no business making the playoffs that first year they were supposed to be VERY bad, get the cap in order, and start building.  Making the playoffs screwed up the entire plan and boxed him into a position where he likely felt obligated to build around Jones thinking there's no way he goes back to be awful he has to keep improving.....only that's not what happened.

So I don't think it's fair to say there's no plan.  There was a very clear plan.  It got screwed up when they won enough games to make the playoffs and face the one and only team there that they could actually beat in the first round.

Minnesota Game got DJ the contract and ironically less than two years later it also may have killed his tenure with the Giants

Quote from: T200 on September 10, 2024, 11:21:44 AMCall them flaws if you'd like. The point, which you clearly missed, is that someone who failed at a job, be it GM of a professional sports team or an auto detailing business, has zero room to criticize someone else who is still doing the job better than the critic ever has or will.

You're boosting Lombardi when he has not earned the right to criticize.

One year working for one of the worst owners in the league is all you needed to declare that Mike is a failure as a GM?  I am mindful that GMs don't have the luxury of being recycled like coaches are (occasionally they are, but most are done after their first job).

Quote from: MightyGiants on September 10, 2024, 11:21:21 AMYou think the poor job Schoen did last year in putting together the offensive line might have contributed to DJ's decline (after he got the crap beat out of him due to lack of protection)?

No
He was making too mistakes that had nothing to do with pressure. Plus he creates a fairly large % of his own pressure.

Quote from: MightyGiants on September 10, 2024, 11:24:19 AMOne year working for one of the worst owners in the league is all you needed to declare that Mike is a failure as a GM?  I am mindful that GMs don't have the luxury of being recycled like coaches are (occasionally they are, but most are done after their first job).

His 4-12 record says he failed. Ask Parcells what he thinks about Lombardi's record.

If the other 31 teams truly felt he had something to offer and his 4-12 was because of "one of the worst owners in the league", I think he would have gotten another shot.

You can defend and deflect on Lombardi all you want. My point stands and I don't have any more to add to this.

Good conversation, though. 

Quote from: babywhales on September 10, 2024, 11:27:18 AMNo
He was making too mistakes that had nothing to do with pressure. Plus he creates a fairly large % of his own pressure.

Chris,

I am afraid I have to disagree with you on that one.  I mean this was what was standing between him and getting the crap beat out of him by an elite 49er defense last season


Giants OL vs SF 2023 week 3:

LT Josh Ezeudu
LG Shane Lemieux
C JM Schmitz
RG Marcus McKethan
RT Evan Neal

Quote from: T200 on September 10, 2024, 11:29:53 AMHis 4-12 record says he failed. Ask Parcells what he thinks about Lombardi's record.

If the other 31 teams truly felt he had something to offer and his 4-12 was because of "one of the worst owners in the league", I think he would have gotten another shot.

You can defend and deflect on Lombardi all you want. My point stands and I don't have any more to add to this.

Good conversation, though. 

Tim,

Mike was also in his mid 50s after the Browns GM job.   Not only are recycled GMs rare, but hiring older GMs is even rarer (our own Gettleman hire being the notable exception).   So I am at a loss why you "think" he would have been given another bite at the GM apple, so to speak.

Schoen has excelled at the cap and trades to this point in his tenure. Every one of his misses high in the draft were all blue chip guys that were thought to be can't miss, so you can't really fault him for that. The only thing I really see him lagging on is his drafting of late round picks. With the lack of talent that we have we need all the late round surprises that we can get.

Does Lombardi really think the Giants would show proprietary valuation models on a publicly televised show? No team with half a brain would ever willingly let information like that out. Hell, I don't think I'd even let cameras around it for fear that someone with bad intentions could let it out. 

Check out what LT said about the game....

https://nypost.com/2024/09/10/sports/lawrence-taylors-sad-message-to-carl-banks-as-they-watched-giants-in-horror/

Quote from: expatriot on September 10, 2024, 12:01:49 PMCheck out what LT said about the game....

https://nypost.com/2024/09/10/sports/lawrence-taylors-sad-message-to-carl-banks-as-they-watched-giants-in-horror/

"Lawrence looked at me at halftime and said, 'Carl, I could pick 22 of us right now and go out and play better than these guys. We'd be in this game.' The youngest guy in that line was probably 50 years old. Lawrence Taylor looked at me and said, 'I can get 22 of us right now and go out there right now and whoop these guys' ass.'"

Quote from: MightyGiants on September 10, 2024, 11:21:21 AMYou think the poor job Schoen did last year in putting together the offensive line might have contributed to DJ's decline (after he got the crap beat out of him due to lack of protection)?

I think he thought Neal was good just like every other GM in the league because in college he wasn't just good he was great.  I think that he also brought in two other OL to try and fix the problem.

Quote from: MightyGiants on September 10, 2024, 11:21:21 AMYou think the poor job Schoen did last year in putting together the offensive line might have contributed to DJ's decline (after he got the crap beat out of him due to lack of protection)?

I think the team is better now than it was when he got it which is what I was commenting on.  I think competent QB play would demonstrate that pretty clearly.  And I think that Jones has been bad since the day he showed up in the NFL and even though he's worse now he was never going to be good. So to me if you want to crush Schoen for something crush him for the Jones contract.

Quote from: T200 on September 10, 2024, 08:17:17 AMWow. So he gleaned everything he needs to know about Schoen and how the Giants are run from a TV show? I guess he thinks they all stink to high heaven because he didn't see any of them shower?

What an idiot. Remind me again what team he works for? "My profession" - you're an EX-GM! We need a middle finger emoji. In the meantime, Lombardi, this is for you

A GM who sucked so bad that he lasted two years. He's the gold standard for his "profession". His obsession with the Giants is unhealthy in many ways. We stink but the team is much better talent wise than when he was hired. You simply can't succeed in the NFL with a middle school quarterback. If he fixes that this coming offseason we should start to see improvements.

Quote from: Gmo11 on September 10, 2024, 12:18:57 PMI think he thought Neal was good just like every other GM in the league because in college he wasn't just good he was great.  I think that he also brought in two other OL to try and fix the problem.I think the team is better now than it was when he got it which is what I was commenting on.  I think competent QB play would demonstrate that pretty clearly.  And I think that Jones has been bad since the day he showed up in the NFL and even though he's worse now he was never going to be good. So to me if you want to crush Schoen for something crush him for the Jones contract.

There were red flags.  Neal was on the ground too much at Alabama.  He didn't do any of the Combine measures and a 16 Wonderlic for an offense linemen is a red flag in my book.  Not many successful O-linemen with poor Wonderlic scores. 

Here is what 4 NFL scouts thought of Neal coming out



2. EVAN NEAL, Alabama (6-7 ½, 345, no 40, 1): Rated the No. 1 tackle in the class of 2019. "He came to Alabama on a three-year plan," said one scout. "He had NFL written all over him since arrival. Does he remind you of Orlando Pace, Jonathan Ogden or Walter Jones? No, he's not that caliber. But in this era of football he's near the top of the list. He's pretty safe. You can find clips of him getting beat from an athletic standpoint. But he's a giant, he's a good kid, they like him there, he works pretty hard. The floor is pretty high for him. He'll line up and play for a long time." Started at LG as a freshman, RT as a sophomore and LT as a junior. "I do think he can be a dominant right tackle," said a second scout. "He's played left tackle but I see a guy that's going to have problems there. Negatives? Feet. I don't see Laremy Tunsil, a guy who can block Myles Garrett one on one for a whole game. I don't see that kind of athlete." Arms were 34. Elected not to run a 40. Wonderlic of 16. "He just is not a quick mover and he's not particularly strong," a third scout said. "He gets that super Alabama bump but he's just not an elite player. For being that big you better be kicking ass and destroying people. He doesn't have much violence to him. He doesn't have much competitiveness to sustain. He falls off a lot of his blocks and guys just work him over." From Okeechobee, Fla.

Quote from: madbadger on September 10, 2024, 12:22:57 PMthe team is much better talent wise than when he was hired.

I often see that claim made, but I have seen nothing to support that claim

Quote from: MightyGiants on September 10, 2024, 08:22:21 AMIt's funny, fans are eager to pile on Daniel Jones, but after 3 seasons the Giants have a roster that is ranked (and plays like) one of the worst in the league.  Yet, fans are more eager to bash any critics than they are to hold our GM (who objectively has not done anything to improve the roster he inherited in the last three years) accountable.

People may hate Mike Lombardi, but I have a hard time saying he is wrong about Joe Schoen.  The results, as they say, speak for themselves

Boomer Esiason had a good point yesterday morning. Whenever you have a lot of controversy/concern/media churn focused on the quarterback each week, it had the side effect of shielding other players, coaches, and management from accountability.