Big Blue Huddle

I was among the very small minority who didn't like the Jones trade.

The Giants gave up a high 2nd round pick and a 5th-round pick.   The Giants gave him a $30 million-dollar-a-year contract (a salary that could have signed a major free agent).

So the Giants gave up two major assets (a big contract and a high 2nd-round pick) and a 5th rounder for a player who has made zero impact in two games.

This is not how you build a winning football team.

His tenure certainly isn't starting well. And that's being kind.

Every situation is different when we talk about giving time to see how changes develop. New offensive line is one of those. But when you bring in a singular entity like a Kenny Golladay or Brian Burns, his impact should be seen immediately. This is not a good sign for him or the defense.

Quote from: MightyGiants on September 16, 2024, 08:23:33 AMI was among the very small minority who didn't like the Jones trade.

The Giants gave up a high 2nd round pick and a 5th-round pick.  The Giants gave him a $30 million-dollar-a-year contract (a salary that could have signed a major free agent).

So the Giants gave up two major assets (a big contract and a high 2nd-round pick) and a 5th rounder for a player who has made zero impact in two games.

This is not how you build a winning football team.

Teams starving for young talent to build around don't trade said talent.  Burns is not a consistent Force; he's good, but not worth the contract. I didn't oppose the trade, but cautioned Burns wasn't the player fans professed to be.

Agreed, he has to be better

How much of this is how utilizing Bowen is what I am curious about, mainly cauise the defense as a whole has not been great outside the red zone

He has been an elite pass rusher before. That's what they traded for ane I had no issues with it. Whether it's the scheme or the fat paycheck the guy we're seeing now is not the guy we've seen the past few years. Totally different guy.

Its only two games and thus far he hasn't been impactful.  If he gets his normal 9 sacks and doesn't impact the outcome of games, then that contract will not be worth it.  There is still a lot of season left to change minds so I am not convinced one way or the other.

My issues with the trade was:  1)the similarity to some other recent trade and signs the Giants have done and reeked of desperation to me with a regime that is likely on the hot seat this year.  I assume the move was made so that the new DC had a better chance of generating a pass rush with 4.  2) There was commentary on poor run defense by him.  IMO to be one of the highest paid at that position you should be a top pass rusher and at least not a liability in run defense.  As of now he hasn't shown high end pass rush ability and isn't a good run defender.  Being a good pass rusher (not great) and a liability in the run game is not what most fans thought they were getting.

The Giants recorded 5 sacks yesterday of a mobile rookie QB and none of them was by Thibs or Burns.  I think I only saw a couple of plays where either of them was getting any pressure.  There is a lot of assets sitting in those two EDGE players and if they don't produce its probably going to be one more nail in the coffin of this regime.

Quote from: Gmo11 on September 16, 2024, 10:20:15 AMHe has been an elite pass rusher before. That's what they traded for ane I had no issues with it. Whether it's the scheme or the fat paycheck the guy we're seeing now is not the guy we've seen the past few years. Totally different guy.

When was he an "elite" pass rusher.  By what metric?

Quote from: Gmo11 on September 16, 2024, 10:20:15 AMHe has been an elite pass rusher before. That's what they traded for ane I had no issues with it. Whether it's the scheme or the fat paycheck the guy we're seeing now is not the guy we've seen the past few years. Totally different guy.

Actually, he was never an "elite pass rusher".  He was a good pass rusher who, as Brandon Brown said on Hard Knocks, was a player they believed was ascending.

The current Giants management staff need to pull their collective asses out of their butts and realize the importance of the pre-season.  Every year they sit the starters and we all wonder why they look so unprepared the first few weeks of the season.  We are in dire need of a regime change and I think Mara needs help in determining the next crew. 

Quote from: MightyGiants on September 16, 2024, 10:24:41 AMActually, he was never an "elite pass rusher".  He was a good pass rusher who, as Brandon Brown said on Hard Knocks, was a player they believed was ascending.

Sounds like Olivier Vernon

Quote from: uconnjack8 on September 16, 2024, 10:25:39 AMSounds like Olivier Vernon

At least with Vernon the didn't give up a high 2nd round and a 5th round draft pick

Quote from: MightyGiants on September 16, 2024, 10:24:41 AMActually, he was never an "elite pass rusher".  He was a good pass rusher who, as Brandon Brown said on Hard Knocks, was a player they believed was ascending.

He was elite based on the pass rushing metrics we all saw prior to the season. He's fallen flat so far and maybe now that he's paid he's done putting out maximum effort. But he was excellent in Carolina.

Quote from: Gmo11 on September 16, 2024, 10:39:02 AMHe was elite based on the pass rushing metrics we all saw prior to the season.

By which metrics?

Let me know when the Giants turn a 2nd round pick into a star player. I'd rather take a chance on a known player like Burns than another JMS, Wandale, etc. Those guys don't move the needle at all.

Once again, this organization is so far behind the curve in evaluating talent in relation to $.  Shoen just got snookered by his old buddy at Carolina. 

Memo to Shoen....this is a dog eat dog profession.  You got took.

Memo to fans.... what you see in front of you is the absolute worst football organization on just about every level.  Talent evaluation, contracts equaling talent level and importance to the process of building a winning organization and team, HC and GM selection, decision making on game day, medical staff, damn near everything needed to build a long term winning organization we are totally deficient. 

If there is a George Young and Ray Perkins out there we need to find them.  Good things will only start when we find two EXPERIENCED people to start and clean out this quagmire.  And be prepared it will be a long slow process.  Acquisitions and contracts like Burns are just the tip of the iceberg.

The New York Football Giants are the dictionary definition of cluster@@@k.