Big Blue Huddle

Game one- tells the Giants staff Gunner is healthy (after a groin injury), and the guy reinjured his groin in warmups.

Game two- Ronnie tells the Giants Gano it is good to go to game two.  Reporters observe Gano moving gingerly in warmups, and then he gets hurt (supposedly with a hamstring) in the opening kickoff.

The Giants have consistently been one of the most injured teams (with players taking forever to return and often reinjuring themselves upon their return) for over the past decade.

If the Giants ever want a chance to compete, they need to retire Ronnie Barnes instead of putting him in the ring of honor.

Yup, gotta admit those are two blunders that cannot be justified under any circumstance.

Ironically, both are upper leg injuries and I find that troubling the staff doesn't seem to understand how to check a player out for hamstring or groin injuries.

But Gano should have known better than to put his hand up yesterday. The head coach should have activated the practice squad kicker just in case and the medical staff should have shut down Gano before kickoff.

All facets for managing Gano's hamstring failed terribly yesterday and it hampered the Giants' chances to win. While not the root cause, it certainly was a direct cause contributing to their difficulty in putting the opponent away.

The loss yesterday further exposed poor medical management, poor head coaching risk mitigation planning and a kicker who didn't put his team above his own interests.

The result:

Gano is done as the Giants' kicker

Daboll dug his grave a little deeper

The Giants' medical staff failed their players yet again and are developing a trend in lack of knowledge of upper leg muscle/ligament/tissue injury management and rehabilitation.

Not a good look on all fronts.

 

@kartanoman

Chris,

Many people are blaming Daboll for the Gano disaster.  Few seem to appreciate that the head coach counts on his medical staff to provide accurate information.

2 great posts by both MightyGiants and kartanoman. I've posted similar on Ronnie Barnes in the past, so I don't have much to add. As for Daboll, it's not a reason to fire him, but it won't look good when his job status is evaluated after the season.

Another one of the incompetent untouchables...

Quote from: MightyGiants on September 16, 2024, 08:57:40 AM@kartanoman

Chris,

Many people are blaming Daboll for the Gano disaster.  Few seem to appreciate that the head coach counts on his medical staff to provide accurate information.

The disaster of Daboll is that we only dressed 52 and could have easily protected ourselves by elevating a kicker to an open slot.

Thats mismanagement of epic proportions.

Quote from: JT39 on September 16, 2024, 10:18:00 AMThe disaster of Daboll is that we only dressed 52 and could have easily protected ourselves by elevating a kicker to an open slot.

Thats mismanagement of epic proportions.

You got that right for sure.

Ronnie Barnes, who has been on the Giants Training Staff for 48 years, and for the last 14  has been the Giants Senior VP of Medical Services, is not only liked and respected by Giants players, but is among the most honored and awarded in League history. If his role today is more than a Mara Family sinecure, and thus he is the principal decision-maker, it should be obvious where any such blame should go first and foremost.

In any case, this was the second straight week that Daboll chose to play a game with fewer than 53 men on the active roster, and with PK-Jude McAtamney passed over as security for an injury reported/ high questionable Graham Gano.

Perhaps, Daboll & Co. can find comfort in the Giants having been the only team in history to have scored 3 Touchdowns while allowing none to their opponent and still manage to lose the game in regulation.

It sure does seem that with the Giants, the more things change, the more they stay the same.

Cheers!
 

Quote from: Painter on September 16, 2024, 11:48:13 AMPerhaps, Daboll & Co. can find comfort in the Giants having been the only team in history to have scored 3 Touchdowns while allowing none to their opponent and still manage to lose the game in regulation.

The Giants have always found new ways to lose.

Quote from: MightyGiants on September 16, 2024, 08:57:40 AM@kartanoman

Chris,

Many people are blaming Daboll for the Gano disaster.  Few seem to appreciate that the head coach counts on his medical staff to provide accurate information.

This, if Barnes says he is good to go, you would have to think you can count on someone doing it so long.

The medical staff should never have cleared him

Quote from: MrGap92 on September 16, 2024, 12:57:04 PMThis, if Barnes says he is good to go, you would have to think you can count on someone doing it so long.

The medical staff should never have cleared him

Exactly, and we saw the same thing in week one with Gunner

Whatever Barnes's current role may be- we really don't know if he is more than the messenger- all he can do at most is report and recommend beyond which we don't know the details. It then is up to others, Daboll, in particular, to decide whether or not to hedge the bets which he sure as hell failed to do with his PK yesterday. Whether frivolous or foolish, it cost the team dearly and most embarrassingly. Question: Will he have learned anything from it if he's not otherwise too arrogant to accept blame?

Cheers!

Quote from: MightyGiants on September 16, 2024, 08:57:40 AM@kartanoman

Chris,

Many people are blaming Daboll for the Gano disaster.  Few seem to appreciate that the head coach counts on his medical staff to provide accurate information.

I look at it more like shared responsibility.  Just because Barnes' staff says a guy is good to go doesn't mean you have to play him right away.  If, as has been reported, Gano was walking gingerly on Saturday Daboll should have exercised his own judgement.  And Barnes isn't the one who left an open roster spot rather than adding an 'insurance' kicker.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on September 16, 2024, 02:54:35 PMI look at it more like shared responsibility.  Just because Barnes' staff says a guy is good to go doesn't mean you have to play him right away.  If, as has been reported, Gano was walking gingerly on Saturday Daboll should have exercised his own judgement.  And Barnes isn't the one who left an open roster spot rather than adding an 'insurance' kicker.

Rich,

I get what you are saying.  Yet, to me, football coaches are not usually medical experts or even that medically well-informed.  They lean heavily on their medical people to provide them with the proper guidance for all things injury and health-related.

Quote from: Painter on September 16, 2024, 11:48:13 AMYou got that right for sure.

Ronnie Barnes, who has been on the Giants Training Staff for 48 years, and for the last 14  has been the Giants Senior VP of Medical Services, is not only liked and respected by Giants players, but is among the most honored and awarded in League history. If his role today is more than a Mara Family sinecure, and thus he is the principal decision-maker, it should be obvious where any such blame should go first and foremost.

In any case, this was the second straight week that Daboll chose to play a game with fewer than 53 men on the active roster, and with PK-Jude McAtamney passed over as security for an injury reported/ high questionable Graham Gano.

Perhaps, Daboll & Co. can find comfort in the Giants having been the only team in history to have scored 3 Touchdowns while allowing none to their opponent and still manage to lose the game in regulation.

It sure does seem that with the Giants, the more things change, the more they stay the same.

Cheers!
 

Teams are only allowed to dress 48, so is there an issue in terms of a team not having a full 53-man active roster?

Quote from: AZGiantFan on September 16, 2024, 02:54:35 PMI look at it more like shared responsibility.  Just because Barnes' staff says a guy is good to go doesn't mean you have to play him right away.  If, as has been reported, Gano was walking gingerly on Saturday Daboll should have exercised his own judgement.  And Barnes isn't the one who left an open roster spot rather than adding an 'insurance' kicker.

Although this thread focuses on the Medical Management, the kicker situation is unquestionably a shared responsibility from the kicker, himself, to the medical staff to the head coach himself. What it all boils down to is the assessment of risk and then properly managing that risk as it can potentially impact the game on Sunday.

The actions of the three parties above translated into the following handling of the risk

"IF Gano's hamstring were to become further injured during the game, THEN ..."

In Risk Management 101, you handle a risk in one of four ways:

1. AVOID IT
2. MITIGATE IT
3. TRANSFER IT
4. ACCEPT IT

Guess which method ALL THREE PARTIES chose to handle the above risk?

You are CORRECT! #4: ACCEPT IT; i.e. full steam ahead and damn the torpedoes, as "The Duke" used to say.

What you didn't hear "The Duke" say was, "You sunk my battleship!"

Looking back, what other approaches could they have taken to achieve a more favorable outcome?

Could they have MITIGATED the risk? Have Gano just kick field goals and elevate Practice Squad kicker, Jude McAtamney, as the kickoff specialist? Well, that would all but eliminate Gano's need to sprint the field UNLESS there was a blocked field goal. Certainly, we could consider this a better option than ACCEPTING the risk.

Could they have AVOIDED the risk? Sit Gano for a couple of weeks, elevate Jude McAtamney as the kicker and go with him until Gano was 100% ready? Possibly, this is an option they could have chosen. There may have been questions regarding whether McAtamney was mentally ready for his first NFL game on the road, against a division rival, in a hostile environment. These are all valid questions to consider. There also was likely not enough time to check the waiver wire to work out a kicker before the team left for the Nation's Capital.

So, it appears that McAtamney is not at the forefront of Daboll's mind as far as being "ready" to be thrown into a game at this point. Given the empty roster spot was apparently "more important" is baffling on a level I still cannot understand. The kid couldn't have performed any worse than the Scottish Hammer did yesterday. So, I'll just leave it at that in my dumbfounded state.

With any luck, maybe they can sign the former kicker from Green Bay who kicked for them last season. Didn't he kick a 55 yarder to win a game last year? I certainly wouldn't mind having him back.

Peace!