Big Blue Huddle

Blockbuster trade made. Julius Randle, Divi, and an unprotected 1st rd. pick brings KAT to the Garden. The NBA world is in shock.

Good move? 
bad move? 

It seems, they were never going to pay Randle what he wanted, and secondly, to make the numbers work and staying under the umbrella (or whatever crazy thing that is called), they had to throw in Divi

Regardless, we got our center for now...and he has a 40% lifelong avg from beyond the arc

I think it's a great trade for the Knicks in that Towns moves and spaces better than Randle so it balances the team out.

I only wish they did not have to include DD as he was a favorite.  Given the age and relatively similar stats, I sort of thought Towns for Randle straight up (maybe include the draft pick) was enough.

Quote from: Philosophers on September 28, 2024, 10:29:35 AMI think it's a great trade for the Knicks in that Towns moves and spaces better than Randle so it balances the team out.

I only wish they did not have to include DD as he was a favorite.  Given the age and relatively similar stats, I sort of thought Towns for Randle straight up (maybe include the draft pick) was enough.

Salaries.  Donte plus Randle equal 41 mill and Town is set to make 49.  They had to include another salary like Donte's to make work.

I like deal.  Towns can defend when he wants to and this lets Knicks start Hart now instead of Hart coming off bench.  Plus helps them match up better with Celtics and Sixers since Thibs was never going to play Randle at 5 against Embiid.

I love the trade.

Randle is a guy I have wanted the team to trade for years now, and the reality about him is that the Knicks were at their best last year when he wasn't even involved anymore. I'm not saying Randle isn't at times a very good player. He is. But he wasn't really a fit (either his play or culturally), and it was not a good contract. So to me the main piece in this trade is a guy many including myself have wanted to get rid of, and even if you think Randle is a very talented player, he is not on the level of Towns.

I agree that losing Dante stings, but it's not a disaster, and I think it's important to recognize that losing Dante when you have Bridges is very different from losing Dante if you didn't have Bridges. Bridges plays the same position and is a much better player on both ends of the floor.

As far as the draft pick, it is what it is. It's top 13 protected (not that that will come into play), and the whole reason why the Knicks got all these draft picks was to be able to use them in trades such as this one.

You have to now ask yourself if the Knicks have a championship caliber team, because they have really gone for it in this offseason. My personal view is that they do now. Last year they were an excellent defensive team but really at the end of the day had only one consistently big time scoring threat. Now they have three of the latter, and they're an even better defensive team now as Bridges is a huge defensive add plus Towns can play some defense as well (along with all the other talent he brings to the table).

The big issues with the Knicks moving forward are durability and depth. Both of those are legitimate concerns. But if those two issues can be managed even somewhat will, I now think this team has a chance to go all the way. I'd also add that they're not old at all, which means they can run with this group for a few seasons and be a top NBA team for some time now. That's a pretty great feeling considering what the last 23 or so years have looked like overall (save for the last season or two).

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on September 28, 2024, 10:37:14 AMI love the trade.

Randle is a guy I have wanted the team to trade for years now, and the reality about him is that the Knicks were at their best last year when he wasn't even involved anymore. I'm not saying Randle isn't at times a very good player. He is. But he wasn't really a fit (either his play or culturally), and it was not a good contract. So to me the main piece in this trade is a guy many including myself have wanted to get rid of, and even if you think Randle is a very talented player, he is not on the level of Towns.

I agree that losing Dante stings, but it's not a disaster, and I think it's important to recognize that losing Dante when you have Bridges is very different from losing Dante if you didn't have Bridges. Bridges plays the same position and is a much better player on both ends of the floor.

As far as the draft pick, it is what it is. It's top 13 protected (not that that will come into play), and the whole reason why the Knicks got all these draft picks was to be able to use them in trades such as this one.

You have to now ask yourself if the Knicks have a championship caliber team, because they have really gone for it in this offseason. My personal view is that they do now. Last year they were an excellent defensive team but really at the end of the day had only one consistently big time scoring threat. Now they have three of the latter, and they're an even better defensive team now as Bridges is a huge defensive add plus Towns can play some defense as well (along with all the other talent he brings to the table).

The big issues with the Knicks moving forward are durability and depth. Both of those are legitimate concerns. But if those two issues can be managed even somewhat will, I now think this team has a chance to go all the way. I'd also add that they're not old at all, which means they can run with this group for a few seasons and be a top NBA team for some time now. That's a pretty great feeling considering what the last 23 or so years have looked like overall (save for the last season or two).

Jeff - that may be one of the best summaries and posts ever on this board.  You hit on so many key points.  Bridges does make DD more expendable.

If his knee is good it's a great trade, but if he's going to have chronic issues with it, not so much. I'm just glad to be out from under Randle. He was the best player on a bad team for years but doesn't fit the team they've been able to assemble.

Thibs has had a goal, and is working towards it. He wanted Brunson from the get-go, and got him. He wanted OG, he got him. He wanted Bridges, he got him. He wanted KAT, he got him

He had to give up a lot to build the team he wanted. As it stands, I believe the starting 5 is great, but the bench is a little weaker (Mitch++, Precious, Deuce+, Sims), but on the upside, it allows the team to develop (R)PG Tyler Kolek, (R)SF Pacôme Dadiet (will replace Hart off the bench), (R)2G Kevin McCullar Jr., and (R)C/PF Hukporti

I'm a little curious about the PF position. If they get Mitch back, I suppose KAT moves to PF. I don't see OG as a PF, but neither do I see Hart as a PF. Precious fills the PF void well IMO. It will be interesting to see how Thibs moves the chess pieces around. I'm sure he has a plan

Going to be an interesting season, that's for sure

Quote from: Philosophers on September 28, 2024, 10:41:57 AMJeff - that may be one of the best summaries and posts ever on this board.  You hit on so many key points.  Bridges does make DD more expendable.

Wow, thank you Joseph. That's extremely flattering, especially given it is coming from one of the board's clear top shelf posters.

Bottom line: this was great news. We should all be incredibly fired up about it. It doesn't guarantee anything of course, but this team is going for it, and it's going for it after a long period of patiently building up assets and positioning themselves to be in the opportunity to make moves like the ones they have made in this offseason.

It's going to be an exciting winter and (hopefully) spring and early summer. I haven't been this pumped for a Knicks season since probably the 90s.

According to insiders, Divi was the least excited player about getting Bridges, because he knew his minutes were going to go away. Supposedly, he's been unhappy since the acquisition. That clears up the picture a little more

First not to split hairs but the 1st round pick included in the trade is in fact a protected one from Detroit.

Next, when the Knicks were on their TEAR mid-season, it was when OG, Brunson AND Randle were on the court together.

I hate the loss of Devo as he was a true impact player and he along with Hart were the emotional leaders of the team.

Finally, while I know that part of the justification for the move was Randles injury history; but Towns has had more time missed than Randle so now we have two C's with a history of missing critical minutes.

I'm still excited for the season, but I'm scratching my head on this move.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on September 28, 2024, 11:45:42 AMAccording to insiders, Divi was the least excited player about getting Bridges, because he knew his minutes were going to go away. Supposedly, he's been unhappy since the acquisition. That clears up the picture a little more

Interesting. I wasn't aware of his apparent unhappiness, but I can see how that might make sense. I would argue that Divi played well enough last year to deserve to be a starter on the 2023/24 Knicks after Quickley and RJ were traded, but I would not argue that he is a starter on a legit championship team. I really like Divi, but Bridges is simply better both offensive and defensively.

Look at how this team has developed in one year:

Oct 2023:

Brunson
Quickley
Barrett
Randle
Mitch/Hartenstein

(Dante, Deuce, Hart)

Oct 2024

Brunson (Payne)
Bridges (Deuce)
OG (Bates-Dip)
Hart (Precious)
Towns (Mitch)

Could our bench be a little deeper? Yes. Are some of these players injury-prone? Yes.

Do I think we have a good enough team now to where aspirations of winning a title are legitimate? Yes.

Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on September 28, 2024, 11:48:55 AMFirst not to split hairs but the 1st round pick included in the trade is in fact a protected one from Detroit.

Next, when the Knicks were on their TEAR mid-season, it was when OG, Brunson AND Randle were on the court together.

I hate the loss of Devo as he was a true impact player and he along with Hart were the emotional leaders of the team.

Finally, while I know that part of the justification for the move was Randles injury history; but Towns has had more time missed than Randle so now we have two C's with a history of missing critical minutes.

I'm still excited for the season, but I'm scratching my head on this move.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I know Randle and the team were playing well before he got hurt, but they continued to play well after he got hurt, and they surged into the postseason and beat a Sixers team that, with Embiid in the lineup, was probably a top 3 team in the NBA.

I think it's very reasonable to believe that they would have been in the ECF without Randle had the rest of the team not been so decimated with injuries. They got to a game 7 even in the state they were in.

Bottom line for me: this team got much better in the offseason. Adding two stars in Bridges and Towns is a huge deal. They lost a good but inconsistent player with a questionable attitude in Randle, and they lost a nice role player in DD whose value to the team, while still considerable, was diminished by the Bridges acquisition. They did lose a good but now simply too expensive player in Hartenstein, although I would argue the Knick did a great job of developing him into the player he now is, as he wasn't anything close to being that good when he got here. So it's reasonable to speculate that they might be able to accomplish similar development with other players that we don't presently view as significantly valuable.

I don't see how anyone could argue that this team is not materially better than last year's team, even with Randle healthy. It has far fewer picks than it used to, but the only reason they had all those extra picks was to be able to have the top of offseason they just had.

Through smart, patient building and strategic asset acquisition and management, they got themselves to a point where they were very competitive but not quite there. This offseason was to put them over the top and make them on par with the absolute cream of the crop teams in the NBA. I believe they have now done that. Staying healthy enough to get a good seed and for the health to remain reasonably solid into the postseason will be the main challenge, but I am choosing to be optimistic (within reason) about that. Last year was absurdly bad on this front and they still managed to have a very nice run in the postseason with a far less potent roster than they have today.

Exciting times.

Personally, I think Hartenstein is the biggest loss so far. He was the epitome of a team player, always knowing who was open, blind passing at an elite level, and was Brunson's primary partner out front for the pick-n-roll. And he was tenacious at getting after the ball off the glass. But the Knick's best kept secret wasn't a secret anymore, and he was going to get a sht-load of money (and he did), but beyond the Knick's budget, in their grand scheme of things. I love watching I-Hart play

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on September 28, 2024, 12:37:24 PMPersonally, I think Hartenstein is the biggest loss so far. He was the epitome of a team player, always knowing who was open, blind passing at an elite level, and was Brunson's primary partner out front for the pick-n-roll. And he was tenacious at getting after the ball off the glass. But the Knick's best kept secret wasn't a secret anymore, and he was going to get a sht-load of money (and he did), but beyond the Knick's budget, in their grand scheme of things. I love watching I-Hart play

Very fair. I didn't want to lose him either. He got really expensive though, and this team wanted to add some star power.

Bottom line you can't keep everyone when you have good players that are up for much bigger contracts than you had them at.

As I said before, Kudos to the Knicks' front office and coaching staff for acquiring Hartenstein when they did at the price they did, and then turning him into a much better player. That gives me confidence that they can do that again with other players.

I liked the trade. The Knicks needed bulk. Still, I don't think they are done yet. To me, Hart is not a starting wing. Bridges can play shooting guard or small forward. But they really have a need there without Randle. Especially in a league that heavily depends on wings for offense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk