Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: todge on September 28, 2024, 01:19:09 PMI liked the trade. The Knicks needed bulk. Still, I don't think they are done yet. To me, Hart is not a starting wing. Bridges can play shooting guard or small forward. But they really have a need there without Randle. Especially in a league that heavily depends on wings for offense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree with you FWIW. I suspect we'll see more Precious on the 4 spot than Hart. And when Mitch is back, I suspect KAT will move to the 4 spot

I love Hart...he has "heart". He's great to bring into the game to give it a shot of energy mixed with controlled chaos. At 6'4", he's not really a power forward. He has a unique skill that is hard to afix to a position - Tasmanian Devil position???. Tenacious defender and dangerous when he has a hot hand, but I find it hard to see him as a "power forward", even though he's played the position before. He's more a 2 or 3 guy in my opinion; hence, the reason I wouldn't be surprised if Precious is our starting 4. Can't wait to see what Thibs has up his sleeve

Quote from: todge on September 28, 2024, 01:19:09 PMI liked the trade. The Knicks needed bulk. Still, I don't think they are done yet. To me, Hart is not a starting wing. Bridges can play shooting guard or small forward. But they really have a need there without Randle. Especially in a league that heavily depends on wings for offense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would have 100% agreed with this a year ago or even midway through last season, but I feel like Hart really proved himself last year, especially in the playoffs. His defense and rebounding were off the charts. He's also no less of an outside shooting threat than Randle is (higher career 3 pt pctage). I would agree that they're thin at this position now, but I think Hart is worthy of being a starter. He's not the overall scoring threat that Randle is, but he's a much better defender than Randle (who played almost no defense) and is a comparable rebounder. Precious Achiuwa is a developing player who is serviceable enough to play 8-10 minutes a game in relief of Hart (who was playing entire games in the postseason with no break).

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on September 28, 2024, 01:32:08 PMI agree with you FWIW. I suspect we'll see more Precious on the 4 spot than Hart. And when Mitch is back, I suspect KAT will move to the 4 spot

I love Hart...he has "heart". He's great to bring into the game to give it a shot of energy mixed with controlled chaos. At 6'4", he's not really a power forward. He has a unique skill that is hard to afix to a position - Tasmanian Devil position???. Tenacious defender and dangerous when he has a hot hand, but I find it hard to see him as a "power forward", even though he's played the position before. He's more a 2 or 3 guy in my opinion; hence, the reason I wouldn't be surprised if Precious is our starting 4. Can't wait to see what Thibs has up his sleeve

I think they'll mix things up. Whatever Hart's height is, he played like a power forward in the playoffs last year, and he played at a high level. Keep in mind OG is 6'7" and has some bulk, so he's on the big side for a 3. OG can play almost any position, so I think with him and Hart in there along with a star at center is perfectly fine. When Robinson gets healthy they can go big and have him in there with Towns on a situational basis if they want to.

I'm actually not worried about any of this, as Thibs understands how to mix and match and knows he doesn't need to adhere to some cookie-cutter spreadsheet of defined positions. I also don't think they'll start Achiuwa over Hart solely because he's taller.

One of the things that used to make me cringe, is when Randle decided to bring the ball down and try out his dribbling skills, even though he had an open guard to pass to, often times followed by a quick guard stripping him of the ball. I won't miss that! I hope KAT doesn't think he's a dribbling aficionado, like Randle did on occasion. Get the ball in the hands of Brunson as quickly as possible...that's my motto

You're probably right about Hart playing the 4. In the old days, you had to have a 7-0+ center who policed the paint, a 6-6 to 6-10 muscular power forward, etc. But coaches are constantly trying new ideas and I think it has more to do with being able to spread the offense, combined with pick-n-roll. The old formations might be antiquated in today's style of game. I just don't know 

With OG and Bridges on the left side of the court, Hart should probably be left alone a lot, and that's a defensive mistake. Give Josh room and he'll take it to the hoop

The Athletic's take on the trade:



Just when you thought it was safe to print out those rosters and depth charts as the entire NBA enters training camp this coming week, the New York Knicks and Minnesota Timberwolves shake things up. The Athletic's Shams Charania and Jon Krawczynski reported a massive and confusing trade on the precipice of being completed by the two teams late Friday night.

The Knicks are set to acquire Karl-Anthony Towns from the Wolves, and are sending back Julius Randle, Donte DiVincenzo, Keita Bates-Diop and a protected first-round pick via the Detroit Pistons. The Charlotte Hornets are also involved in the trade to help balance out salaries in this move for the Knicks.

If you're scratching your head on this one, join the club. It's kind of a bizarre trade in many ways, and it's a massive gamble for both teams. Best way to make heads and tails of this trade is to bust out a red pen and throw down some trade grades.

(No offense to the Hornets grabbing random role-player salaries and secondary draft compensation, but they will not be graded today. This is like a pass/fail pop quiz for them and we'll give them a pass for absorbing salary dumps to even out the trade.)

New York Knicks acquire Karl-Anthony Towns

On the surface, this can make some sense for the Knicks. There have been rumors about them going after Towns for some time now, and it finally came to fruition. Towns is a four-time All-Star, two-time All-NBA Third Team selection and one of the best outside shooting big men we've ever seen. The best, if you ask him. While Towns is much maligned on the internet, he is a very good player and one of the better big men in the NBA. He can score anywhere on the floor, is an exceptional and effortless outside shooter and is a pretty good rebounder, as well. The Knicks desperately need a center with Mitchell Robinson injured, Isaiah Hartenstein off to Oklahoma City and Jericho Sims as the only real center-sized player left on the roster (you can throw Precious Achiuwa in there sparingly).

Towns absolutely fills a need, and he does so while not disrupting the flow of the Knicks' offense. They can now play five-out, put tremendous pressure on the perimeter and might even be able to mimic a little bit of what Boston did offensively in its championship run — at least in terms of how the Celtics attack and bombard from the 3-point line. Remember: The Knicks acquired Mikal Bridges this summer, and paired him with OG Anunoby, Josh Hart and Jalen Brunson, as well. So there's a ton of versatility and perimeter defense. Randle was always an odd fit once Brunson came to the Knicks and quickly established himself as an MVP candidate. Keeping Randle happy with touches and opportunities was always a bit of a ticking bomb because it could very easily take the Knicks out of what was working.

All that said, New York is doing two confusing things here. I wasn't a big fan of the DiVincenzo signing a year ago because the Knicks didn't appear to need him much at the time. I thought they needed to prioritize more size on the wing or in the interior. All of that changed when Immanuel Quickley and RJ Barrett were moved in the Anunoby deal. At that point, DiVincenzo became indispensable in their rotation and played the best ball of his career. It's not that you can't move him in a deal, even a deal like this. But there was a lot of great vibes gathering by bringing in another Villanova player with Bridges, and the "Nova Knicks" had everybody legitimately excited. They immediately break that up to acquire Towns (RIP Nova Knicks: 2024-2024). Although, this means more playing time for Deuce McBride, and he can really play.

The other confusing part about this for the Knicks is I'm pretty sure Towns drove Tom Thibodeau wild during their time together in Minnesota. Forget, even, the whole Towns and Jimmy Butler thing. Towns would often talk about the defensive tenets that were utilized in his time with the Kentucky Wildcats, as Thibs was pleading with the team to buy in defensively to what he wanted the Wolves to do. Towns has the capability to be a good defensive player. I know that because prior to the Rudy Gobert acquisition, there was always one month of the season in which Towns played great defense and you'd start talking yourself into him finally turning the corner on that end of the floor. Then his bad tendencies would come back and that sentiment would vanish. The fun part was you never knew which month it was going to happen. Towns is too aggressive going for blocked shots and not timely enough to actually affect the shot. That leaves the offensive boards open for the opponent. He also struggles with help positioning and rotations when he's the primary defensive big man. That's the biggest part of Thibodeau's defense with his big men.

The Knicks badly need Towns to be solid defensively. They're going to be up against an incredible Boston offense, a potentially dangerous Philadelphia squad with Joel Embiid (a Towns nemesis), and the relentless attacking of Giannis Antetokounmpo at the rim and Damian Lillard in a pick-and-roll on the perimeter with Milwaukee. Not to mention teams like Orlando, Indiana, Cleveland and occasionally Miami in the mix. New York desperately needs Towns to play the best, most consistent defense of his career and to rebound against physicality. The good news is when Robinson is back for the Knicks, he and Towns can play alongside each other. Towns showed that often with Gobert in Minnesota.

Even though this is a talent upgrade in the frontcourt where the Knicks were lacking, I'm still confused why this is the move for the Knicks. Their floor is raised but I'm not sure they'll get to that higher ceiling. Towns has to change the way he's played on defense to make this a massive win for the Knicks. It also removes any glimmer of financial flexibility Brunson gave them by taking a discount with his extension. Towns is signed through 2027 for $160 million and then has a $61 million player option for the 2027-28 season.


Grade: B-

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on September 28, 2024, 11:33:17 AMWow, thank you Joseph. That's extremely flattering, especially given it is coming from one of the board's clear top shelf posters.

Bottom line: this was great news. We should all be incredibly fired up about it. It doesn't guarantee anything of course, but this team is going for it, and it's going for it after a long period of patiently building up assets and positioning themselves to be in the opportunity to make moves like the ones they have made in this offseason.

It's going to be an exciting winter and (hopefully) spring and early summer. I haven't been this pumped for a Knicks season since probably the 90s.

Thank u, Dave.

Excellent posts..great knowledge..superb analysis. Let's hope we have it all together next April. I will miss Dante too.

KAT can play excellent "D"


Pretty much an underwhelming signing at first glance, but the Knicks picked up shooting guard Landry Shamet a couple weeks ago. He is eerily similar to picking up Divi last year...an underrated shooting guard whose main position was backup shooting guard...both are 6-4. But Shamet is no slouch and his signing with the Knicks, might very well have been done in advance of thinking they'd have to let Divi go to make a deal for KAT. Shamet's career avg at the 3 point line, is .385. He might take some of the sting off of losing Divi. BTW, Divi's 3pt career avg is .376...basically, a wash. I don't remember a whole lot of excitement last season when we picked up Divi...not until he played excellent for awhile. Hopefully, Shamet will also surprise us

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on September 29, 2024, 10:30:49 AMKAT can play excellent "D"

Pretty much an underwhelming signing at first glance, but the Knicks picked up shooting guard Landry Shamet a couple weeks ago. He is eerily similar to picking up Divi last year...an underrated shooting guard whose main position was backup shooting guard...both are 6-4. But Shamet is no slouch and his signing with the Knicks, might very well have been done in advance of thinking they'd have to let Divi go to make a deal for KAT. Shamet's career avg at the 3 point line, is .385. He might take some of the sting off of losing Divi. BTW, Divi's 3pt career avg is .376...basically, a wash. I don't remember a whole lot of excitement last season when we picked up Divi...not until he played excellent for awhile. Hopefully, Shamet will also surprise us

Great post JBG. Lots of good info here.

One thing I'd say is that I have more confidence in the Knicks' ability to develop talent than I have in ages. We have seen the extent to which they developed Hartenstein, we saw it with Quickley, we are seeing it with Deuce, we saw them get the best play out of both Hart and Divi of their careers. Hell, even Brunson, who most people saw as a good but not exceptional player when he arrived at the Knicks, was turned into an elite NBA star here.

So while there is no question in my mind that depth is a bit of an issue on this team, I think it's reasonable (and backed up by factual examples) for us to have some faith that some of these younger, lesser known guys on the team have a shot of being developed into solid contributors, potentially pretty quickly in some cases.

I was kind of surprised at this morning's Daily Knicks that thinks the starting five will be:

PG1 - Brunson
SG2 - Deuce
SF3 - OG
PF4 - Bridges
C5 - KAT

I don't know about that. I can see putting Bridges at the 4 spot, rather than Hart since Bridges is 6-6 with a 71" wingspan, but Deuce starting at the 2 

It's obvious that Shamet is an offensive juggernaut, but I don't know about his defense. Haven't found any clips on that...and in Thibs' system, you have to play "D". Regardless, the secret sauce to the Celtics has been, "raining threes"...and I think the Knicks can play that game with KAT and Shamet raining treys

I was watching the frustration on Thibs face when Shamet was carving up the Knicks in a game last year, in the above clip. I wouldn't be surprised that Thibs told Leon, "if he's available at the end of the season, I want him". Thibs will mold him into a weapon...as long as he can defend

The post I disagree with, but could be wrong: https://dailyknicks.com/posts/projecting-knicks-new-look-starting-5-after-karl-anthony-towns-blockbuster?sc=be165671da3b347e2b57f31b3de62ada4335dd4eb041bc409f5188d150192a90

The Knicks are all in trying to win a championship. 

A team kow with good interior and perimeter D as Randle was not that plus greater spacing for shooters.  Feeling a little Golden State coming to to MSG.

All I'll add is that while I hate losing Divo, it's very possible '23-'24 was a high water mark for his career. He's been around for a bit. Wish him the best, but would not be surprised if he doesn't get near 40% 3P shooting on similar volume moving forward.

The fact that Dolan FINALLY stopped meddling and let the GM do his thing gives me hope that it might one day happen with the Giants .

Just curious to you hoops fans.  Would you have preferred that Josh Hart be included in the trade or DD?  It may be a really stupid question so sorry if it is.

Quote from: Philosophers on September 30, 2024, 10:22:48 AMJust curious to you hoops fans.  Would you have preferred that Josh Hart be included in the trade or DD?  It may be a really stupid question so sorry if it is.

Easy question for me...no way. Hart is the heart and soul off the bench, that changes the rhythm and nature of the game in progress. Calling him a "scrapper" doesn't begin to define him. He's tenacious at every level and for the opponents, like a nasty pest that throws you off your game

I loved what Divi brought to the game (catch and shoot threes), but he was going to the bench the minute they signed Bridges...and he knew it; hence his unhappiness with the trade. Divi's a great shooter and decent defensive player, but nowhere on the level of Bridges, who will most likely become a permanent fixture at the shooting guard position in tandem with Brunson. Divi cannot do for the Knicks, what Hart brings to the show

Also, I do not believe that Leon/Thibs is through tinkering with the lineup. I think there is frustration with Mitch and his too-regular injuries. Now that we have a legitimate center/PF...I can see the Knicks pulling another trade (involving Mitch) to get a up-n-coming PF who is at the very least, "available". But I don't know, I guess we'll see

But to reiterate my answer to your original question. Hart all day long over Divi