Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on September 30, 2024, 08:58:36 PMAnd previous regime loved washed up, 30-plus year old backs like Jonathan Stewart, Devonta Freeman, Davonte Booker, Dion Lewis,

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on September 30, 2024, 08:58:36 PMAnd previous regime loved washed up, 30-plus year old backs like Jonathan Stewart, Devonta Freeman, Davonte Booker, Dion Lewis, etc.

Touche. In a league where teams routinely find pro bowl running backs in rounds 3-5 and we use the second pick overall on one. It's hard to get on Schoen for not using a second or third round pick this year on running back because he landed two studs with those picks. Hopefully they fix the quarterback and running back issues in the draft.

Here is what Singletary has averaged per game for his career prior to joining the Giants:

Rushing Attempts - 11.4
Targets          - 3
Receptions       - 2.2

I have no idea if an increase in touches will wear him down quickly or not.

From what I remember the Bills ran him a lot out of spread type formations with the QB in the shotgun (that's really just my memory not fact).  Given the potency of that teams passing attack with an elite QB, elite WR and being among league leaders in explosive pass plays annually, there was probably a bit more beyond the LOS.

The subject header is misleading. The Giants are 30th in rushing yards per game which is what the NFL uses to rank teams. Dallas and Vegas are worse.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/team/_/view/offense/stat/rushing/table/rushing/sort/rushingYardsPerGame/dir/desc

Quote from: TDToomer on October 01, 2024, 08:58:51 AMThe subject header is misleading. The Giants are 30th in rushing yards per game which is what the NFL uses to rank teams. Dallas and Vegas are worse.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/team/_/view/offense/stat/rushing/table/rushing/sort/rushingYardsPerGame/dir/desc

LOL! Moving up a stunning two whole spots using a less meaningful metric.

You have a very loose interpretation of the term "misleading."

In their lone victory of the season, stat muse has the Giants ranked as the 15th best rushing team of week 3 (https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-team-rushing-yards-week-3-nfl).

Perhaps the problem with the run game is the seemingly age-old problem of playing score board catch-up which means they can't rush as much as they'd like to.

In week 1: They were down 28-3 at the end of the 3rd quarter
Week 2: Down 15-12 by the end of the 3rd Quarter.
Week 3 Up 21-7 at the end of the 3rd quarter
Week 4: Down 17-12 at the end of the 3rd

So in week 1, it's worthless running the ball in the 4th quarter to get back into the game. But the team rushing yards for each game is:
Week 1: 74 yards
Week 2: 129 yards
Week 3: 112 yards 
Week 4: An appalling 24 yards.

So in 50% of their games, they've put up okay numbers. If you remove the Dallas game and accept it as an aberration rather than the norm, the committee will rush for 1890 yards this season. If you include the Dallas game they are projected to run for 1,525 yards this year.

Now, the defence rush rankings through four weeks are:

Vikings - 2nd
Washington - 18th
Browns - 13th
Dallas - 27th

So they've rushed against 3 teams in the top 20 and one atrocious defence, which oddly was their worst game.

TL;DR - I actually think the rushing game will be okay this season and the early season dismay at its production is a bit of an overreaction when considering the quality of the teams played and the aberration against Dallas. 

Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on October 01, 2024, 09:39:33 AMIn their lone victory of the season, stat muse has the Giants ranked as the 15th best rushing team of week 3 (https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-team-rushing-yards-week-3-nfl).

Perhaps the problem with the run game is the seemingly age-old problem of playing score board catch-up which means they can't rush as much as they'd like to.

In week 1: They were down 28-3 at the end of the 3rd quarter
Week 2: Down 15-12 by the end of the 3rd Quarter.
Week 3 Up 21-7 at the end of the 3rd quarter
Week 4: Down 17-12 at the end of the 3rd

So in week 1, it's worthless running the ball in the 4th quarter to get back into the game. But the team rushing yards for each game is:
Week 1: 74 yards
Week 2: 129 yards
Week 3: 112 yards 
Week 4: An appalling 24 yards.

So in 50% of their games, they've put up okay numbers. If you remove the Dallas game and accept it as an aberration rather than the norm, the committee will rush for 1890 yards this season. If you include the Dallas game they are projected to run for 1,525 yards this year.

Now, the defence rush rankings through four weeks are:

Vikings - 2nd
Washington - 18th
Browns - 13th
Dallas - 27th

So they've rushed against 3 teams in the top 20 and one atrocious defence, which oddly was their worst game.

TL;DR - I actually think the rushing game will be okay this season and the early season dismay at its production is a bit of an overreaction when considering the quality of the teams played and the aberration against Dallas. 

John,

This is why it's better to look at yards per carry.  It takes away the issue of the score.  In fact, to your point about being behind, you would expect more yards per carry, as teams are usually not that concerned with the run when they are significantly ahead. 

If you look at this chart, you can see that roughly 4.4 yards per carry is a rough middle.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/yards-per-rush-attempt

The Giants are down at 3.4 yards per carry.  In the last game, they managed only 1.1 yards per carry on 24 carries.  If the Giants had even managed a below-average 4.1 yards per carry, they would have added an extra 72 yards of offense.   Frankly, it's hard not to see that as a major reason, the Giants failed to beat Dallas (who, up until facing the Giants, was terrible running the football).

I really am concerned with the running game moving forward.   Singletary is a pretty solid back who will make the most of what he is given, but he's not a yards creator.  So far Tracy hasn't produced as hoped and the other RB I thought might give the team a boost, Turbo, is on the practice squad.  Gray has been utterly disappointing as a RB since he was drafted last season.

Per Patty Traina, Singletary is facing 8+ men in the box 32% of the time, good for 5th in the league. I have to believe that affects the ability of the running game to be productive. Certainly can demand more from the run game, but defenses (especially Dallas last week) are loading up to stop the rushing attack.

All of the maladies stem from a QB who just can't get it done. The first four games has shown that nothing gets done offensively beyond 20-25 yards downfield. Thus defenses don't have to defend most of the field. Defenses are stacking the LOS daring Jones to beat them throwing. Not gonna happen.

Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on October 01, 2024, 10:50:59 AMPer Patty Traina, Singletary is facing 8+ men in the box 32% of the time, good for 5th in the league. I have to believe that affects the ability of the running game to be productive. Certainly can demand more from the run game, but defenses (especially Dallas last week) are loading up to stop the rushing attack.

Typical. DCs usually go after the perceived strongest aspect of an offense to neutralize and force the weaker units/aspect to step up. With our key personnel, it's certainly understandable.

Quote from: T200 on October 01, 2024, 11:11:15 AMTypical. DCs usually go after the perceived strongest aspect of an offense to neutralize and force the weaker units/aspect to step up. With our key personnel, it's certainly understandable.

50% of those stacked boxes came in the Dallas game.  Clearly, Dallas stacked the box in an effort to stem the bleeding from their poor run defense.   Unfortunately, Daboll didn't appear to adjust to that defensive move by Dallas by taking advantage of the weaker pass defense a stacked box offered (he rushed 24 times).

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 01, 2024, 11:18:25 AM50% of those stacked boxes came in the Dallas game.  Clearly, Dallas stacked the box in an effort to stem the bleeding from their poor run defense.   Unfortunately, Daboll didn't appear to adjust to that defensive move by Dallas by taking advantage of the weaker pass defense a stacked box offered (he rushed 24 times).

What do you consider "taking advantage"? Jones threw 40 times for a 7-yard average. I mean, if there are eight in the box to stop the run, somebody's gotta be open, I would think.

Talking with someone who's viewed the All-22, there were open receivers that Jones didn't see/hit.

Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on October 01, 2024, 10:50:59 AMPer Patty Traina, Singletary is facing 8+ men in the box 32% of the time, good for 5th in the league. I have to believe that affects the ability of the running game to be productive. Certainly can demand more from the run game, but defenses (especially Dallas last week) are loading up to stop the rushing attack.

Just my opinion here, but I don't think they are loading up the box just to stop the run.  I think they are bringing more players down because 1) The Giants haven't proven they can throw deep with any consistency, 2) stop the short passing game which makes up a majority of their offense, and  3) stop the run. 

There is also a question about whether they are telegraphing when they are going to run or not.

i agree our talent is bottom tier... but I do remember a lot of people clamoring here to let barkley walk and do a committee. i'm not saying we'd be that much better off with barkley at the moment. but part of me does want to say you got what you wished for.

Quote from: T200 on October 01, 2024, 11:28:55 AMWhat do you consider "taking advantage"? Jones threw 40 times for a 7-yard average. I mean, if there are eight in the box to stop the run, somebody's gotta be open, I would think.

Talking with someone who's viewed the All-22, there were open receivers that Jones didn't see/hit.

Does this guy count?

Q: Can you elaborate on Daniel (Jones)?

BRIAN DABOLL: Yeah, three games in a row, I'm proud of the young man. He's made good decisions. He's thrown the ball where he needs to throw the ball. The last play to (wide receiver Jalin) Hyatt, that's a heave it down there and see if we get a DPI (defensive pass interference) or we can go up and try to make a play. But he's, I thought, for three games he's been locked in. He's played well. He's seeing the field. He's delivered the ball where he needs to. Again, we had some opportunities to continue drives today, as well. I'm proud of how he's performed, how he's prepared. He's done a nice job for us.

Quote from: B1GBLUE on October 01, 2024, 11:32:19 AMi agree our talent is bottom tier... but I do remember a lot of people clamoring here to let barkley walk and do a committee. i'm not saying we'd be that much better off with barkley at the moment. but part of me does want to say you got what you wished for.

I am mindful that the money not spent on Barkley was used to upgrade the O-line.   It wasn't that people wanted Barkley gone as much as they thought the O-line was a better investment than an aging, injury-prone RB.

That said, had Schoen drafted O-linemen better they could have kept Barkley.