Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 01, 2024, 09:19:50 AMLOL! Moving up a stunning two whole spots using a less meaningful metric.

You have a very loose interpretation of the term "misleading."

Isn't this is same kind of personal attack that you accuse others of doing to you?

Quote from: TDToomer on October 01, 2024, 11:41:33 AMIsn't this is same kind of personal attack that you accuse others of doing to you?

Are you referring to falsely accusing someone of being misleading?  Still, to answer your question, no, it's not a personal attack to accurately point out your misuse of the term "misleading" (in an effort to insult others).

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 01, 2024, 11:33:12 AMDoes this guy count?

Q: Can you elaborate on Daniel (Jones)?

BRIAN DABOLL: Yeah, three games in a row, I'm proud of the young man. He's made good decisions. He's thrown the ball where he needs to throw the ball. The last play to (wide receiver Jalin) Hyatt, that's a heave it down there and see if we get a DPI (defensive pass interference) or we can go up and try to make a play. But he's, I thought, for three games he's been locked in. He's played well. He's seeing the field. He's delivered the ball where he needs to. Again, we had some opportunities to continue drives today, as well. I'm proud of how he's performed, how he's prepared. He's done a nice job for us.

He sure does.

Have you ever seen an NFL coach throw his QB under the bus in public and declare that, "We've seen what he is but it's just not enough win a championship is."?

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 01, 2024, 11:18:25 AM50% of those stacked boxes came in the Dallas game.  Clearly, Dallas stacked the box in an effort to stem the bleeding from their poor run defense.   Unfortunately, Daboll didn't appear to adjust to that defensive move by Dallas by taking advantage of the weaker pass defense a stacked box offered (he rushed 24 times).

Dallas also knows Jones is incapable of seeing the field well and 90% of the time he will telegraph the play, stay with his first option, and if the TE is in the box he will stay there

Quote from: Trench on October 01, 2024, 12:10:53 PMDallas also knows Jones is incapable of seeing the field well and 90% of the time he will telegraph the play, stay with his first option, and if the TE is in the box he will stay there

Here is the thing.   In that game, Daniel Jones had:

59.6 QBR (the average NFL QB has a QBR of 50) which was hurt by the hail Mary INT
He had QB rating of 81.6, which was dragged down by a hail Mary INT
His PFF grade was an outstanding 80.6
He had the 10th-highest EPA per pass

So, by these measures, it's fair to say Daniel Jones was playing well.  So it hardly seems like Daboll would have been wrong to turn more to Jones in light of the failed running game.

I think it's also worth noting that things go both ways.  A strong run game can help the passing game.  The Giants 1.1 yards per carry hurt the passing game rather than help.

His rating was dragged down by 22 pts for one pass, late in the game?


Sheesh, that's punitive and feels like a flaw in their approach to grading. That's 27% of his overall grade.

Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on October 01, 2024, 01:20:01 PMHis rating was dragged down by 22 pts for one pass, late in the game?


Sheesh, that's punitive and feels like a flaw in their approach to grading. That's 27% of his overall grade.

The way they calculate passer ratings is interesting.  It's essentially a score that is in equal parts: completion percentage, yards per attempt, TD per attempt, and INT per attempt.   That one INT really tanks that part of the score.

I used a Passer rating calculator to see what the INT cost in passer rating.  If we took out the Hail Mary pass, his passer rating jumps from 80.6 to 94.1

https://brucey.net/nflab/statistics/qb_rating.html

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 01, 2024, 01:31:28 PMThe way they calculate passer ratings is interesting.  It's essentially a score that is in equal parts: completion percentage, yards per attempt, TD per attempt, and INT per attempt.  That one INT really tanks that part of the score.

I used a Passer rating calculator to see what the INT cost in passer rating.  If we took out the Hail Mary pass, his passer rating jumps from 80.6 to 94.1

https://brucey.net/nflab/statistics/qb_rating.html

Rich,

That's a good illustration of the QB Rating stat IMO.  I noticed this one when looking at box after this past weekends games.  Kyler Murray had a better QB Rating than Jayden Daniels Sunday because Daniels threw 1 INT. However, ESPN's QBR stat shows a more accurate (in this case) representation of the game:

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 01, 2024, 12:45:12 PMHere is the thing.  In that game, Daniel Jones had:

59.6 QBR (the average NFL QB has a QBR of 50) which was hurt by the hail Mary INT
He had QB rating of 81.6, which was dragged down by a hail Mary INT
His PFF grade was an outstanding 80.6
He had the 10th-highest EPA per pass

So, by these measures, it's fair to say Daniel Jones was playing well.  So it hardly seems like Daboll would have been wrong to turn more to Jones in light of the failed running game.

I think it's also worth noting that things go both ways.  A strong run game can help the passing game.  The Giants 1.1 yards per carry hurt the passing game rather than help.

I appreciate everything you laid out.

BUT....

1. He didn't throw a single pass into the end zone at 1st and goal

2. He continued to Checkdown

3. His deep passes were dreadful

4. He did not WIN the game

So to me the stats are just that. If we went by in game stats Dan Fouts would be considered one of the best ever. A great QB albeit he wasn't able to consistently WIN

I'm not so sure that the lack of an effective running game is a huge surprise.  The majority of the line is new and the line coach is new as are the  RBs.  Daboll's emphasis was and is to improve the passing game.  The OL is blocking pretty well in that area and much better than past years.  The season is still early, less than 25% of the season and not that much practice time for the new OL to come together during the preseason.  If they stay healthy, I'm guessing that the running game will get better as everyone on the offense learns to play together.  It doesn't have to be great, just adequate enough for the passing game.

Quote from: uconnjack8 on October 01, 2024, 01:41:44 PMRich,

That's a good illustration of the QB Rating stat IMO.  I noticed this one when looking at box after this past weekends games.  Kyler Murray had a better QB Rating than Jayden Daniels Sunday because Daniels threw 1 INT. However, ESPN's QBR stat shows a more accurate (in this case) representation of the game:

I tend to agree, I think QBR is a better metric.  The biggest thing about pass rating, is in the era of the mobile QB it doesn't capture running yards.  For me, I don't think there is a definitive measure.  I think you take things like passer rating, QBR, PFF Grades, EPA per drop back and look at various raw stats you can get a sense of the QB's performance.  When I look at raw stats, I tend to look at yards per attempt and the ratio of TDs to INTs.  I will look at total yardage, but for me that is more a measure of attempts than anything.

Quote from: Trench on October 01, 2024, 01:44:29 PMI appreciate everything you laid out.

BUT....

1. He didn't throw a single pass into the end zone at 1st and goal

2. He continued to Checkdown

3. His deep passes were dreadful

4. He did not WIN the game

So to me the stats are just that. If we went by in game stats Dan Fouts would be considered one of the best ever. A great QB albeit he wasn't able to consistently WIN

1) I don't know what Daboll wanted

2) I didn't see that

3)  I agree with you.  7 yards per attempt is considered solid

4) There were many factors, but for me, the lion's share belongs to the 1.1 yards per rushing attempt and the official's blown call

Dan Fouts was an outstanding QB.  The problem was the team he played on was not constructed in a way that allowed Dan to win championships (sort of like Dan Marino)

Here is a definition of a "checkdown":

"A check down is a short pass to a running back or tight end that a QB makes when there is no one open downfield. The term checkdown refers to the QB "checking down" their list of receivers."

Check downs and short passes are two different things. In Jones' case, his primary receiver has been Nabers and as we can see, he is very good at getting separation and being open.


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