Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Philosophers on October 02, 2024, 08:46:56 AMThe YPA of 6.1 is his average over 4 games.  It's really bad.  The top 10 passing offenses have Y/A over 7.0 (mostly 7.3 - 7.8) except for Seattle at 6.8 however the Y/C of the top 10 are all over 10.0 with most between 11 - 13.  DJ's Y/C may be even worse though both are bad.

It's worth looking at the Yards per attempt by game since trends are important.

Week 1-  4.4 yards per
Week 2-  6.4 yards per
Week 3-  6.9 yards per
Week 4-  7.0 yards per

Daniel Jones has averaged 6.6 yards per attempt over a 6 year career. This is exactly who he is.

Quote from: Doc16LT56 on October 02, 2024, 09:55:45 AMDaniel Jones has averaged 6.6 yards per attempt over a 6 year career. This is exactly who he is.

Doc: I have to accept your idea that "[t]his is exactly who he is" but that is only true in context.

IMO it's "more correct" to say that he is exactly who the coaching staff is asking him to be (so far as we know).

I'm not sure if they're asking him to do what he's doing, which is living or dying with mostly short-range passing, because: (1) that's all he can do; or (2) it's he does best; or (3) that's what Daboll believes is the best offense in the NFL; or (4) because Daboll believes that's what's best for the current offensive line to be able to protect Jones.

Bob

Quote from: Doc16LT56 on October 02, 2024, 09:55:45 AMDaniel Jones has averaged 6.6 yards per attempt over a 6 year career. This is exactly who he is.

That may be, and it will likely result in the Giants moving on from him, but that is no reason to use an obvious outlier to try to make it seem worse than it is, as some folks do.

Quote from: Doc16LT56 on October 02, 2024, 09:55:45 AMDaniel Jones has averaged 6.6 yards per attempt over a 6 year career. This is exactly who he is.

If you said that about Geno Smith or Sam Darnold you would be very incorrect.   The idea that QBs can't improve is not really valid.   While improvement after years is less likely, these two high profile examples show it's far from impossible

Are we having this lengthy discussion because some here actually feel like he is improving and is the answer as our QB moving forward and into the future?    I can understand the responses trying to prove he is underwhelming and at best a back-up but i'm perplexed as to why anyone would defend him other than his being a seemingly good person and teammate.

Quote from: Bob In PA on October 02, 2024, 10:15:32 AMDoc: I have to accept your idea that "[t]his is exactly who he is" but that is only true in context.

He is exactly who the coaching staff is asking him to be is more correct, IMO.

I'm not sure if they're asking him to do what he's doing, which is living or dying with mostly short-range passing, because: (1) that's all he can do; or (2) it's he does best; or (3) that's what Daboll believes is the best offense in the NFL; or (4) because Daboll believes that's what's best for the current offensive line to be able to protect Jones.

Bob

Three different coaching staffs and Daniel Jones has been a below 7.0 yards per attempt QB through it all. Hmmm.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on October 02, 2024, 10:19:05 AMThat may be, and it will likely result in the Giants moving on from him, but that is no reason to use an obvious outlier to try to make it seem worse than it is, as some folks do.

Segregating 4 data points from a set of 64 data points does not make the outlier case you're trying to make.

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 02, 2024, 10:22:10 AMIf you said that about Geno Smith or Sam Darnold you would be very incorrect.   The idea that QBs can't improve is not really valid.   While improvement after years is less likely, these two high profile examples show it's far from impossible

Yes, we're all wishing and praying for the next Darnold or Smith. Please let me know when Jones actually improves.

Quote from: WheresDayne on October 02, 2024, 10:22:53 AMAre we having this lengthy discussion because some here actually feel like he is improving and is the answer as our QB moving forward and into the future?    I can understand the responses trying to prove he is underwhelming and at best a back-up but i'm perplexed as to why anyone would defend him other than his being a seemingly good person and teammate.

To the point in bold, some people seem to be suggesting that it's impossible for DJ to improve to the point of being a franchise QB.  I think the ones you are referring to as "(he) is the answer" are just trying to be fair in their assessment of DJ and would like to wait and see how things are playing out.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on October 02, 2024, 10:19:05 AMThat may be, and it will likely result in the Giants moving on from him, but that is no reason to use an obvious outlier to try to make it seem worse than it is, as some folks do.

What's the outlier you are suggesting?

Quote from: Doc16LT56 on October 02, 2024, 10:26:03 AMYes, we're all wishing and praying for the next Darnold or Smith. Please let me know when Jones actually improves.

DJ has improved from his 2023 play and is back to a 2022 level.  At this point, others and I would like to see if he can solve his long-ball issues and improve to the point of being a franchise quarterback.

Frankly, it's not like I see many other options if we want to see this team competitive in the near future.  With the current talent and coaching, the defense is mediocre.  The running game is terrible and knee-capping our offense and DJ needs to fix his long game if he is going to be the franchise QB the Giants envisioned when they drafted him.  So, I don't think this team is a QB away from being a competitor.

Worse, I don't see a lot of good options on the horizon in terms of franchise QBs that the Giants could acquire to replace Daniel Jones.

Quote from: Doc16LT56 on October 02, 2024, 10:23:58 AMThree different coaching staffs and Daniel Jones has been a below 7.0 yards per attempt QB through it all. Hmmm.

Doc: Good point. That makes it more likely choice (1) is correct and rules out choices (3) and (4), it does not rule out choice (2). I think the current OL is the best he's ever had in the NFL, but we only have four games to consider so far. It's still possible the OL will continue to improve as they get to know each other better (same for the run-game) so the jury is still out on this group. Bob

Quote from: Bob In PA on October 02, 2024, 10:15:32 AMDoc: I have to accept your idea that "[t]his is exactly who he is" but that is only true in context.

IMO it's "more correct" to say that he is exactly who the coaching staff is asking him to be (so far as we know).

I'm not sure if they're asking him to do what he's doing, which is living or dying with mostly short-range passing, because: (1) that's all he can do; or (2) it's he does best; or (3) that's what Daboll believes is the best offense in the NFL; or (4) because Daboll believes that's what's best for the current offensive line to be able to protect Jones.

Bob

I would argue it is not the coaching staff because Daboll (and Jones) are on record saying they want to push the ball downfield this season. Obviously the QB can't make the throws (or everything has to be pristine for him to do so)

Quote from: AZGiantFan on October 02, 2024, 10:19:05 AMThat may be, and it will likely result in the Giants moving on from him, but that is no reason to use an obvious outlier to try to make it seem worse than it is, as some folks do.

Okay, let's indulge your "outlier" argument (even though you don't control for his best performance, which would be an even-handed approach). 6.8 YPA puts him... 24th in the NFL (instead of 27th). Wow, he's still bottom third of the NFL in YPA. Want to adjust his completion percentage? Okay, its 67%, good for 17th/18th (depending how you slice it) in the NFL. Oh, and these are rankings without removing every other QBs worst performance, which would obviously skew things downward for DJ. So even giving Jones this sort of best-case scenario of statistical manipulation, he's still producing at the level of an average to below-average QB. Even when he's got the pass protection and star wide receiver people clamored for.