Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Jclayton92 on October 02, 2024, 06:14:48 PMEvery NFL player is locked in, we are paying the guy 40 million a year so he shouldn't get brownie points for that. Just a few actual stats on Jones this year since you like to cherry pick.

An overall cmpl% of 63.2%
Yard per attempt 6.1
Average target of depth 7.8
Tds/Int 4/3

Deep passing-
16 attempts with 4 completions
Cmpl% 25%
Attempt rate 11.1%
For 120 yards and an Int

Redzone-
19 attempts
52.6% completion percentage
For 41 yards

Efficiency-
90 First read throws  on his 144 dropbacks
Only 2 highlight throws in 4 games or 1.4%
Int worthy throws 5, or 3.5%
His Zone passer rating is 57.4 and he's averaging 6.9 yards per attempt in man and 3.1 per attempt in zone.
He has a 48.7% cmpl% against any pressure with a 3.4 YPA despite having an absurd 2.7 average time to throw.

So you still want to give him brownie points because to 99% of people he still looks like the same ole Jones, he just happens to have a generational Wr to throw to every play and pray for something good to happen.

It's generally not good to say that someone cherry picks, but then withhold certain stats to promote an agenda. This could therefore be termed as being hypocritical. Here are some of the positive stats regarding DJ that were left out from your post.

881 Yards ranked 13th
220 YPG ranked 13th
4 TD ranked 17th
55.7 QBR ranked 14th

And this includes him having a bad first game.

Enjoy I'm off to get some sleep.

You can have the last word as I'm out

Quote from: AZGiantFan on October 02, 2024, 08:28:36 PMI think that folks are surprised because last year in 17 games he had 40 targets and did about as well as you would expect for a 3rd round rookie.  It's not unusual, it's even expected, for a rookie receiver with a first year like that to take a step forward rather go into WitSec.  There is a very wide gap berween being a gem and being a decent productive receiver, but I chalk that part of your comment up to hyperbole.  A lot of good receivers are drafted in the 3rd round, and based on his year 1 it was totally reasonable to expect him to be at least decent.

Sure, but the other side to that coin is that the Giants then spent the 6th overall pick on an elite WR prospect, which pushed everyone down the depth chart. Last year, there was really nothing to get in the way of Hyatt getting on the field and the Giants didn't have a guy who was going to eat a significant percentage of targets like they do with Nabers.

But also, there was very little from last year to say that Hyatt could be a consistently productive player. He effectively became the #3 receiver by week 4 and, for the most part, his impact last year was that he caught a couple of deep balls. He was mostly just a non-factor.

End of the day, the simplest answer here is that he just isn't what they hoped he would be. Just think about it. Daboll and Schoen talked about how they would have been happy to take him in the 2nd round and then traded up in the 3rd to get him. I guarantee that Daboll would love nothing more than to give him reps and make him a productive regular. If he's not getting on the field over Slayton, it's because the Giant coaches aren't seeing what they need to see from him in practice.

Quote from: sxdxca38 on October 02, 2024, 09:57:03 PMIt's generally not good to say that someone cherry picks, but then withhold certain stats to promote an agenda. This could therefore be termed as being hypocritical. Here are some of the positive stats regarding DJ that were left out from your post.

881 Yards ranked 13th
220 YPG ranked 13th
4 TD ranked 17th
55.7 QBR ranked 14th

And this includes him having a bad first game.

Enjoy I'm off to get some sleep.

You can have the last word as I'm out

All I need to know is if you are would retain Jones for next year to be the franchise Qb moving forward based on what you've seen so far?

Quote from: bamagiantfan on October 02, 2024, 08:27:34 PMOkay, this topic has really gotten under my skin.

First, Daniel Jones is not throwing the deep ball well.

Last, JALIN HYATT's LACK OF USE AND PRODUCTION IS JALIN DAVEON HYATT'S FAULT - no one else's. Golladay and Shephard are gone and Hyatt couldn't even beat out Slayton, who runs similar routes to what he would be  running. Slayton realized this team desperately needs a WR who will block and has embraced that role. Hyatt is coasting and has made the least of his opportunities.

Remember when Mettenburger was playing at LSU and scouts thought he was a stud? He was throwing to Jarvis Landry and Odell Beckham. Without them, Mettenberger looked like a very average QB in the NFL. Hyatt is a good WR. Nothing more. Hendon Hooker on the other hand is a stud who is recovering from a serious injury and stuck behind Jared Goff. Hyatt looks like nothing without Hendon Hooker who won SEC Offensive player of the year over Bryce Young, Malik Nabors, back-to-back National Champ Stetson Bennett, and the SEC leader in receiving Jalin Hyatt. Hooker is THAT good. Hyatt was fortunate to be on the other end of those passes.

Jalin Hyatt can be the player he was in college but needs to get better and he needs to want to get better. I'm not seeing either. The guys he was beating in college are starting in the NFL. He hasn't risen to seize the opportunity and frankly, he is going the other direction.

I'm tired of everyone blaming Daboll and Jones for Hyatt's inability to do something - anything! Lay the blame where it belongs.

Daboll and Jones love Slayton. But if he did his job we would likely be 3-1. Instead he dropped the 2 point conversion and a huge one in the other game.

Hyatt didn't just all of a sudden stink. We saw electrifying speed and separation and production last year. I think it's because everyone loves slayton - but like Jones, ya can't count on him in a big spot. But hey, maybe that's why they are so aligned

Quote from: todge on October 02, 2024, 04:32:13 PMUnfortunately the Jones' haters don't have a lot of evidence to back up their claims. Jones has been "locked in". In the Dallas game, he completed 72% of his passes with four drops and two heaves. PFF gave him a near elite grade which was the highest in the entire game. But the expectation is that Jones is supposed to complete every pass.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's not Jones haters. It's "Just Win Baby"....nothing more. Unfortunately after 6 years he has proved he cannot carry the load

Quote from: sxdxca38 on October 02, 2024, 09:57:03 PMIt's generally not good to say that someone cherry picks, but then withhold certain stats to promote an agenda. This could therefore be termed as being hypocritical. Here are some of the positive stats regarding DJ that were left out from your post.

881 Yards ranked 13th
220 YPG ranked 13th
4 TD ranked 17th
55.7 QBR ranked 14th

And this includes him having a bad first game.

Enjoy I'm off to get some sleep.

You can have the last word as I'm out

SX - your infatuation with Jones is akin to someone I know who was certain David Sills was going to work out.

Quote from: MrGap92 on October 02, 2024, 03:08:49 PMAs others have said, Jones is not a fit for his skillset, it doesn't mesh well.

Hopefully the next QB can make better use of his talents.

OR just maybe one pf our other QB is the right/better fit.

Hmmmm

Quote from: Trench on October 02, 2024, 10:48:46 PMSX - your infatuation with Jones is akin to someone I know who was certain David Sills was going to work out.

 

I love me some self deprecation.   

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 02, 2024, 06:59:11 PMI struggle to understand why people are in such shock about Hyatt's lack of production.

He is a third round pick who isn't working out. That happens all the time in the NFL, even on the best teams. The idea that it's a shock or otherwise unexplainable that it could happen to us is perplexing to me. Did people really believe we had some gem that the other 31 GMs didn't know about for two rounds and missed the boat on?

Except that he DID work out last year.  We saw it with our own eyes that as a rookie who was apparently drafted into the dog house of Daboll he still shined at the end of the season.  Showed flashes of skill and potential.  This year we've seen Slayton drop passes while Hyatt watches from the sideline.  It's baffling that he can't get a real shot at playing time because I honestly think if they gave it to him he'd make it impossible for them to take it back.

Quote from: Gmo11 on October 03, 2024, 07:41:49 AMExcept that he DID work out last year.  We saw it with our own eyes that as a rookie who was apparently drafted into the dog house of Daboll he still shined at the end of the season.  Showed flashes of skill and potential.  This year we've seen Slayton drop passes while Hyatt watches from the sideline.  It's baffling that he can't get a real shot at playing time because I honestly think if they gave it to him he'd make it impossible for them to take it back.

People keep saying this, but when did we actually see this? He had more than 25 yards just once in the last 9 games of the year. Like I said earlier, the Giants loved him in the draft last year to the point where they traded up to get him. They have every incentive to get him on the field. If he's not on the field, it is likely because the coaches simply don't think he's better than the guys who are.

Quote from: Giant Obsession on October 03, 2024, 12:14:24 AMOR just maybe one pf our other QB is the right/better fit.

Hmmmm

That is essentially the same thing.

Quote from: Trench on October 02, 2024, 10:48:46 PMSX - your infatuation with Jones is akin to someone I know who was certain David Sills was going to work out.

Trench,

All I've said in this thread was to let the year play out before making a decision.

Not to put you in a corner, but couldn't others say the same thing about yourself in your wanting to get rid of him?

Quote from: Jclayton92 on October 02, 2024, 10:42:39 PMAll I need to know is if you are would retain Jones for next year to be the franchise Qb moving forward based on what you've seen so far?

Too many variables to answer that, we will have to wait till the end of the year to see where we go with him.

Quote from: sxdxca38 on October 02, 2024, 03:43:11 PMI continue to see this reiterated that it is assumed that Daniel Jones will not be the QB next year.

When in fact Daboll has publicly said he's been locked in the last 3 games.

He posted a 96.6 RTG, and a 4 TD to 1 Int ratio during those games, he's been very good in those games.

He also has a great connection with Nabers

Because you asked.

Watch the film and you will see why

Completion % is not the development it will take to retain him.  staring down on Nabers (or any other player) at the expense of the other routes is not sound.  This was true on most of the 5 receiver sets, Jones simply was 100% going to Nabers pre snap. He is moving the ball around but in each play he seems to have a receiver that his eye is fixed on pre snap. Very little scanning the field or looking off a receiver. Way to many check downs at the expense of open players down field is killing this team and was a major issue in the last game.  Poor in play reads cost the team critical 1st downs and TD's.

On the deep and intermediate routes he is missing windows when receivers are open because he is waiting too long.

Example not limited to, the concussion play on Nabes, Singletary was open in front of Jones over the first down marker with no defender around and Theo Johnson was open deep waving his arms only to reposition himself again doing the same (that would of been a huge pick up if not a TD). jones held the ball so long it became a toe tapper that didn't need to be.


Watch the ALL22, the TV coverage doesn't show the whole field and I assure you many announcers fail to discuss what the TV is not showing. I watched the offensive plays two times on ALL 22 and that game clearly shows where Jones is developmentally, the good and there is good, as well as, what is lacking.  Make no mistake about it he is holding the offense back and it is not 3-5  drops that held the offense back.

No QB is expected to be perfect but jones must show a better ability to read the field and work through progressions, and knowing when to pull the trigger on key routes.

I would argue the development that has to occur to be on next years roster has to be the in play processing and knowing when those critical opportunities are present, take them.  That would be a start. 

Jones has played better and not bad, average to slightly above average. He is not the reason they are losing but he is not doing much to help them win either. He is allowing them to compete.


RE: Hyatt
this has completely perplexed me and I am shocked that no word has leaked out as to what is going on. I will say I doubt it has anything to do with Jones

Quote from: Gmo11 on October 03, 2024, 07:41:49 AMExcept that he DID work out last year.  We saw it with our own eyes that as a rookie who was apparently drafted into the dog house of Daboll he still shined at the end of the season.  Showed flashes of skill and potential.  This year we've seen Slayton drop passes while Hyatt watches from the sideline.  It's baffling that he can't get a real shot at playing time because I honestly think if they gave it to him he'd make it impossible for them to take it back.

Hyatt does not drop the ball the way Slayton does.  He catches everything.  Plus he has speed.  He showed me last year he deserves to start over Slayton.