Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: babywhales on October 03, 2024, 08:40:00 AMBecause you asked.

Watch the film and you will see why

Completion % is not the development it will take to retain him.  staring down on Nabers (or any other player) at the expense of the other routes is not sound.  This was true on most of the 5 receiver sets, Jones simply was 100% going to Nabers pre snap. He is moving the ball around but in each play he seems to have a receiver that his eye is fixed on pre snap. Very little scanning the field or looking off a receiver. Way to many check downs at the expense of open players down field is killing this team and was a major issue in the last game.  Poor in play reads cost the team critical 1st downs and TD's.

On the deep and intermediate routes he is missing windows when receivers are open because he is waiting too long.

Example not limited to, the concussion play on Nabes, Singletary was open in front of Jones over the first down marker with no defender around and Theo Johnson was open deep waving his arms only to reposition himself again doing the same (that would of been a huge pick up if not a TD). jones held the ball so long it became a toe tapper that didn't need to be.


Watch the ALL22, the TV coverage doesn't show the whole field and I assure you many announcers fail to discuss what the TV is not showing. I watched the offensive plays two times on ALL 22 and that game clearly shows where Jones is developmentally, the good and there is good, as well as, what is lacking.  Make no mistake about it he is holding the offense back and it is not 3-5  drops that held the offense back.

No QB is expected to be perfect but jones must show a better ability to read the field and work through progressions, and knowing when to pull the trigger on key routes.

I would argue the development that has to occur to be on next years roster has to be the in play processing and knowing when those critical opportunities are present, take them.  That would be a start. 

Jones has played better and not bad, average to slightly above average. He is not the reason they are losing but he is not doing much to help them win either. He is allowing them to compete.


RE: Hyatt
this has completely perplexed me and I am shocked that no word has leaked out as to what is going on. I will say I doubt it has anything to do with Jones

I appreciate your input here, but I see things a bit differently.

Outside of his last drive, he only had 4 incomplete passes the entire game.

He had a PFF score of 80 which is elite.

Wandale dropped a 3rd and 6 that could have went for a TD

Slayton dropped a 3rd and 14 right in his chest.

Malik dropped a 4th down pass right in his hands because of being concussed.

If he was struggling, I'd agree with you, but as Daboll has said, he's been completely locked in the last 3 games.

Daniel Jones is not the main reason why this team is 1-3, there are other players like Burns, Thibodeaux, and Banks who aren't holding there water

Quote from: sxdxca38 on October 03, 2024, 09:51:47 AMI appreciate your input here, but I see things a bit differently.

Outside of his last drive, he only had 4 incomplete passes the entire game.

He had a PFF score of 80 which is elite.

Wandale dropped a 3rd and 6 that could have went for a TD

Slayton dropped a 3rd and 14 right in his chest.

Malik dropped a 4th down pass right in his hands because of being concussed.

If he was struggling, I'd agree with you, but as Daboll has said, he's been completely locked in the last 3 games.

Daniel Jones is not the main reason why this team is 1-3, there are other players like Burns, Thibodeaux, and Banks who aren't holding there water

Fair enough, you are looking at the game based on the passes Jones choose to throw, not the plays the Giants choose to run. 

If you are not watching the ALL22 what you are only seeing a portion of what is occurring. 
    
You asked why people are not assuming why jones will be back and that is why.  They are assessing Jones play within the called plays. Decision making, presnap and in play; be choosing one thing, you choose against another. 

Your admition is you are assessing plays based on what jones teammates did or failed to do and taking Daboll's vague statements and defining them based on your experience.

Like I said watch the all22 and you will see jones left more plays on the field than his teammates did. And saying that I think he played well, not great but well.  I completely agree there were key drops.  There were nice completions too, and some that never should have went to the receivers they did. 

The roster was designed to let Jones have the season to give a clear assessment of his development and current skill set.  No competition was brought in for that reason. In the offseason Daboll also said jones was the starter upon his return and in the next breath wanted to trade for Daniels in the draft.  Daboll was correct but it doesn't negate that fact he wanted to replace Jones the whole time.  

Comments have situational context. 

You believe what you want but you asked why others believe he will not be back.

Quote from: babywhales on October 03, 2024, 10:24:41 AMYou believe what you want but you asked why others believe he will not be back.

My biggest fear is that somehow we carve out 5 - 6 wins (though honestly I will stick with my prediction of 3), screw our draft position in a year where there is little in quality college QB coming out, and are stuck with Danny Boy for another year.  It's probably why DeVito and Lock will not see the field.

Dear Lord, deliver us from this insanity.

How has no word on Hyatt leaked other than Runyan...whose credibility at best is questionable. 

How is Schoen or Daboll not being questioned harder on this issue?

Quote from: babywhales on October 03, 2024, 08:40:00 AMBecause you asked.

Watch the film and you will see why

Completion % is not the development it will take to retain him.  staring down on Nabers (or any other player) at the expense of the other routes is not sound.  This was true on most of the 5 receiver sets, Jones simply was 100% going to Nabers pre snap. He is moving the ball around but in each play he seems to have a receiver that his eye is fixed on pre snap. Very little scanning the field or looking off a receiver. Way to many check downs at the expense of open players down field is killing this team and was a major issue in the last game.  Poor in play reads cost the team critical 1st downs and TD's.

On the deep and intermediate routes he is missing windows when receivers are open because he is waiting too long.

Example not limited to, the concussion play on Nabes, Singletary was open in front of Jones over the first down marker with no defender around and Theo Johnson was open deep waving his arms only to reposition himself again doing the same (that would of been a huge pick up if not a TD). jones held the ball so long it became a toe tapper that didn't need to be.


Watch the ALL22, the TV coverage doesn't show the whole field and I assure you many announcers fail to discuss what the TV is not showing. I watched the offensive plays two times on ALL 22 and that game clearly shows where Jones is developmentally, the good and there is good, as well as, what is lacking.  Make no mistake about it he is holding the offense back and it is not 3-5  drops that held the offense back.

No QB is expected to be perfect but jones must show a better ability to read the field and work through progressions, and knowing when to pull the trigger on key routes.

I would argue the development that has to occur to be on next years roster has to be the in play processing and knowing when those critical opportunities are present, take them.  That would be a start. 

Jones has played better and not bad, average to slightly above average. He is not the reason they are losing but he is not doing much to help them win either. He is allowing them to compete.


RE: Hyatt
this has completely perplexed me and I am shocked that no word has leaked out as to what is going on. I will say I doubt it has anything to do with Jones

One of the best articulated and clear assessments I've ever read on this board. Thank you

Quote from: sxdxca38 on October 03, 2024, 09:51:47 AMI appreciate your input here, but I see things a bit differently.

Outside of his last drive, he only had 4 incomplete passes the entire game.

He had a PFF score of 80 which is elite.

Wandale dropped a 3rd and 6 that could have went for a TD

Slayton dropped a 3rd and 14 right in his chest.

Malik dropped a 4th down pass right in his hands because of being concussed.

If he was struggling, I'd agree with you, but as Daboll has said, he's been completely locked in the last 3 games.

Daniel Jones is not the main reason why this team is 1-3, there are other players like Burns, Thibodeaux, and Banks who aren't holding there water

All excellent counter points. But it's not enough because the tape clearly shows an inability to process and make big plays. He should've won 2 games that we lost

Quote from: sxdxca38 on October 03, 2024, 09:51:47 AMWandale dropped a 3rd and 6 that could have went for a TD

Slayton dropped a 3rd and 14 right in his chest.

Malik dropped a 4th down pass right in his hands because of being concussed.

Wandale did drop a third and 6 that should have been caught, I agree. The throw was to the back hip and forced Robinson to turn around.  The inaccurate throw instantly negated the chance of the TD, but should have been caught.  If he led him and hit Wandale in stride yes a TD was a definite possibility. Jones and Robinson both were at fault.   

Slayton dropped a pass that was thrown behind and low, thus requiring a full body extension and dive to even get both hands on the ball, not in the chest.  I agree it could have been caught but it was an extradentary effort to get both hands on it. So I would argue Jones and Slayton were both at fault.

The Nabers concussion play, Nothing there to the right- after sometime pressure from the LDE. Jones rolls to his left and Nabers runs a 5 yard out and comes back inside over the 1st (barely) and Theo open on the 34 mid field (vulnerable spot on field for Cover 2)  to be fair Jones shoulder are not set as he has the LDE on his tail.  At this point Jones is just outside the hash mark (60' from sideline). AS he crosses the numbers he slows down and squares his shoulders, at this point Singletary on the 45 is breaking to the open field just past the 1st (49). slightly past 1/2 between the numbers and sideline (13' from sideline) and Singletary is at the 49 on the numbers (so slightly behind Jones but not much)
Theo is on the 19 yard line and has been waving his arms the whole time.  Singletary is at the 49 and no one within 6 yards. Jones runs another 4 yards to the edge of field and throws to Nabers on the 35 with a CB glued to his hip for a tight toe tapper and Singletary on the 44 with no one within 6 yards of him.  A solid throw and could have been a first but there was no guarantee the drive led to anything at all except another field goal maybe.  To be fair that was one of the few plays Jones did scan the whole field before flushing the pocket. This one is tricky because to hit Nabers just as he was flushed would have required a stop and square to set hips and feet and that surely would have resulted in a huge hit. Jones probably could have hit Singletary but he was slightly behind him.  If he set and squared he could have gone deep to Theo, but once again that would have resulted in a huge hit. So he waited and ran Nabers perpendicular into the sideline where he sacrificed his body on the toe tap and the defender catapulted his body into the ground with no ability for Nabers to defense himself.  Tuff one all the way around. Even with a catch, it just keeps the drive going with no guarantees of a FG yet alone a TD.

All 3 of your examples were hardly examples of Jones being let down by his teammates and certainly not game changing plays that resulted in a win.

I see 2 if not 3 examples of a Jones run offense unable to execute successfully that has continually plagued this team.  The close but no cigar offense.   

Quote from: babywhales on October 03, 2024, 10:24:41 AMFair enough, you are looking at the game based on the passes Jones choose to throw, not the plays the Giants choose to run.

If you are not watching the ALL22 what you are only seeing a portion of what is occurring.
   
You asked why people are not assuming why jones will be back and that is why.  They are assessing Jones play within the called plays. Decision making, presnap and in play; be choosing one thing, you choose against another.

Your admition is you are assessing plays based on what jones teammates did or failed to do and taking Daboll's vague statements and defining them based on your experience.

Like I said watch the all22 and you will see jones left more plays on the field than his teammates did. And saying that I think he played well, not great but well.  I completely agree there were key drops.  There were nice completions too, and some that never should have went to the receivers they did.

The roster was designed to let Jones have the season to give a clear assessment of his development and current skill set.  No competition was brought in for that reason. In the offseason Daboll also said jones was the starter upon his return and in the next breath wanted to trade for Daniels in the draft.  Daboll was correct but it doesn't negate that fact he wanted to replace Jones the whole time. 

Comments have situational context.

You believe what you want but you asked why others believe he will not be back.

Thank you for your balanced and reasonable comments

Just saw this

Nothing too informative but jones speaks of Hyatt not getting on field in games

https://atozsports.com/nashville/volunteers/giants-daniel-jones-football-tennessee-jalin-hyatt-playing-time-2024/

"I think Jalin's handled it well," said Jones. "He's a pro, he's a mature guy. You've seen it out at practice. He's continued to show up and make a lot of plays. I know it's frustrating for a guy not to get to those opportunities on a Sunday, but I thought he's handled it well. I have a ton of confidence in him out there making plays, changing the game with his speed and the ability to get behind the defense. I know he'll be ready to go."