Big Blue Huddle

Given the mediocre performances of almost all the top QB prospects this week (and really, this year), what's the plan?

Because I'm not seeing anyone who makes me feel "this is the guy!" Are we going to just repeat what happened with DJ and reach for someone?

That is very dangerous and potentially puts us back another 5-6 years as we wait and see if yet another reach is "the future". I'd much rather wait until we see someone we truly love. And I don't see that guy in this upcoming class.

Quote from: Stringer Bell on October 14, 2024, 10:33:58 AMGiven the mediocre performances of almost all the top QB prospects this week (and really, this year), what's the plan?

Because I'm not seeing anyone who makes me feel "this is the guy!" Are we going to just repeat what happened with DJ and reach for someone?

That is very dangerous and potentially puts us back another 5-6 years as we wait and see if yet another reach is "the future". I'd much rather wait until we see someone we truly love. And I don't see that guy in this upcoming class.

It's about who Schoen and Daboll love, maybe they dont, but we dont know, our personal biases and feelings mean jack as far as they are concerned.

Let's just hope whoever they pick pans out. Daboll worked with Allen and other good QBs, and wanted Daniels in this years group who is playing fantastic, so we seem to have people with a good eye for the position.

Quote from: Stringer Bell on October 14, 2024, 10:33:58 AMGiven the mediocre performances of almost all the top QB prospects this week (and really, this year), what's the plan?

Because I'm not seeing anyone who makes me feel "this is the guy!" Are we going to just repeat what happened with DJ and reach for someone?

That is very dangerous and potentially puts us back another 5-6 years as we wait and see if yet another reach is "the future". I'd much rather wait until we see someone we truly love. And I don't see that guy in this upcoming class.

It doesn't set you back 5-6 years... if you've got competent decision makers who aren't bound by the fact that the owner really likes the way the QB presents himself and wants to reward a good soldier. The Bears moved on from Fields before his contract was over. The Cardinals got away from Josh Rosen after a single season. Panthers may call it quits on Bryce Young after 1.25 seasons. You keep trying to find the QB because you're lost in this league without one.

Well said, never settle for mediocrity.

Same 3-5 guys debating this iver and iver across so many posts.  Tiring guys.  You are everywhere debating this.

I don't feel he is the future.  ... but our opinions don't matter. Coaching staff evaluations  matter.
New coaching = new opinions....has he had a fair shot ...I don't think so .....team around him has not been good....arguably his best passing stats were in his first year under a different coach  back then he looked more decisive etc. Can't recall his first coaches name but he got the most out of him ....since then ...new staffs , new players , injuries have all affected his performance on the field. he looks unsure of himself at most times...
Should they make a change at QB with Tommy or the other guy ? (he is so good I can't remember his name)..also a number 1 pick I believe. to find out if he is the issue ...plug in another QB and see what happens...like to see that but from a coaching standpoint a staff would be reluctant to do that ....Daboll and Shoen are married to Jones.
Ok, some will not like what I am going to say .....Eli was a good QB under Coughlin, not great , he had a few years that he played very very good in late season and won two superbowls , but his career stats are not great and at times his was very frustrating to watch during the regular season...5 picks in one game fore example,
how many three and outs when trying to protect a lead ?  a career record of just barely over 500 ? Qb's are difficult to judge from game to game ...Would Prescott have won the game last night. he was absolutely awful yesterday ...Mayfield some considered a bust ..but right now he is playing as good as any QB in league.
unless things turn around for the better between now and end of season...Daboll, Shoen and Mara will have to make a decision...(if they are the decision makers at end of year ) keep Jones or move on . My opinion is that if things do not improve    . move on from him cut your losses and get a new QB. Not sure if a draft pick or just a good dependable veteran to stabilize the position for a year or two.
this yearly poor play by Giants is getting very old...the division looks like it is in transition and open for the taking ....Washington bottomed out last year cleaning house from top to bottom...30 new players on 52 man roster.big difference between Giants and Washington is they have new ownership...Giants will not ...that definitely helped in there total remake .. but we are stuck with "Mara tech" and I think that may be 60% of the problem with this team.

Eli for HOF  yes yes yes . he looks better every year since he has retired.

Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on October 14, 2024, 10:41:16 AMIt doesn't set you back 5-6 years... if you've got competent decision makers who aren't bound by the fact that the owner really likes the way the QB presents himself and wants to reward a good soldier. The Bears moved on from Fields before his contract was over. The Cardinals got away from Josh Rosen after a single season. Panthers may call it quits on Bryce Young after 1.25 seasons. You keep trying to find the QB because you're lost in this league without one.

And this is the new way of thinking.

I think more and more teams will move on from poor QBs, who were drafted high, instead of waiting to see if anything changes.

Quote from: Stringer Bell on October 14, 2024, 10:33:58 AMGiven the mediocre performances of almost all the top QB prospects this week (and really, this year), what's the plan?

Because I'm not seeing anyone who makes me feel "this is the guy!" Are we going to just repeat what happened with DJ and reach for someone?

That is very dangerous and potentially puts us back another 5-6 years as we wait and see if yet another reach is "the future". I'd much rather wait until we see someone we truly love. And I don't see that guy in this upcoming class.

I'd get a stud corner in the 1st currently and then grab a Milroe in the top of the 2nd ala hurts or Lamar so that if you need to dip back in, in 2026 it didn't cost you everything like the Panthers taking Bryce young.

Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on October 14, 2024, 12:12:28 PMAnd this is the new way of thinking.

I think more and more teams will move on from poor QBs, who were drafted high, instead of waiting to see if anything changes.

It's been this way since 2019; it's outdated thinking to suggest drafting the wrong QB sets you back 5-6 years.  The rookie salary cap allows you to move on much quicker.  If you're a Giant fan, I understand the confusion...

Quote from: kingm56 on October 14, 2024, 12:47:44 PMIt's been this way since 2019; it's outdated thinking to suggest drafting the wrong QB sets you back 5-6 years.  The rookie salary cap allows you to move on much quicker.  If you're a Giant fan, I understand the confusion...

I'm surprised more teams in qb hell haven't taken more chances from the 3rd round on, on qbs because there is little risk in taking shots in this new Era.

I have been a Jones supporter and I do believe that his play has regressed from his rookie year, DUE TO circumstances including mediocre O lines and receivers which resulted in too many hits and negative plays, criticism, ridicules... loss of focus and confidence.
One proof for that is he performs better away from home.
So I told myself at the start of the season: If the O line is fixed and Jones gets decent protection, and with the improvement in the receivers group, considering the tougher schedule than last year, Jones needs to win at least 7 games, if he stays healthy If not, it is probably time for the team to move on and consider other options.

Quote from: Woody on October 14, 2024, 10:53:32 AMI don't feel he is the future.  ... but our opinions don't matter. Coaching staff evaluations  matter.
New coaching = new opinions....has he had a fair shot ...I don't think so .....team around him has not been good....arguably his best passing stats were in his first year under a different coach  back then he looked more decisive etc. Can't recall his first coaches name but he got the most out of him ....since then ...new staffs , new players , injuries have all affected his performance on the field. he looks unsure of himself at most times...
Should they make a change at QB with Tommy or the other guy ? (he is so good I can't remember his name)..also a number 1 pick I believe. to find out if he is the issue ...plug in another QB and see what happens...like to see that but from a coaching standpoint a staff would be reluctant to do that ....Daboll and Shoen are married to Jones.
Ok, some will not like what I am going to say .....Eli was a good QB under Coughlin, not great , he had a few years that he played very very good in late season and won two superbowls , but his career stats are not great and at times his was very frustrating to watch during the regular season...5 picks in one game fore example,
how many three and outs when trying to protect a lead ?  a career record of just barely over 500 ? Qb's are difficult to judge from game to game ...Would Prescott have won the game last night. he was absolutely awful yesterday ...Mayfield some considered a bust ..but right now he is playing as good as any QB in league.
unless things turn around for the better between now and end of season...Daboll, Shoen and Mara will have to make a decision...(if they are the decision makers at end of year ) keep Jones or move on . My opinion is that if things do not improve    . move on from him cut your losses and get a new QB. Not sure if a draft pick or just a good dependable veteran to stabilize the position for a year or two.
this yearly poor play by Giants is getting very old...the division looks like it is in transition and open for the taking ....Washington bottomed out last year cleaning house from top to bottom...30 new players on 52 man roster.big difference between Giants and Washington is they have new ownership...Giants will not ...that definitely helped in there total remake .. but we are stuck with "Mara tech" and I think that may be 60% of the problem with this team.

Eli for HOF  yes yes yes . he looks better every year since he has retired.

No idea why some people feel the need to put down other QBs like Burrow and Eli to prove some obscure point about Jones. Eli put up good numbers. You might make the case they were not HOF, but he was also not putting out bottom level numbers either. Seems like every one except Mahomes stinks to some people.

Eli had multiple int games as did   Brady as did Rodgers last week. It has become clear jones would have them all the time if he was left off the very short leash Daboll has him on. And the only reason has to be because Amara wants quite desperate for this to work w Jones. It is clear he would be like Andrew lock who might even be better . He was supposed to start for the Seahawks and they knew to cut bait with Russ Wilson. Never once did I think Eli Manning was a back up QB

Quote from: Fletch on October 14, 2024, 01:08:06 PMNo idea why some people feel the need to put down other QBs like Burrow and Eli to prove some obscure point about Jones. Eli put up good numbers. You might make the case they were not HOF, but he was also not putting out bottom level numbers either. Seems like every one except Mahomes stinks to some people.

Eli had multiple int games as did   Brady as did Rodgers last week. It has become clear jones would have them all the time if he was left off the very short leash Daboll has him on. And the only reason has to be because Amara wants quite desperate for this to work w Jones. It is clear he would be like Andrew lock who might even be better . He was supposed to start for the Seahawks and they knew to cut bait with Russ Wilson. Never once did I think Eli Manning was a back up QB

Not putting Down Eli ...just trying to make the point that all QBs have bad years and games....Eli's best years were with
1. a good running game Bradshaw and Jacobs
2. very good receivers : Burress, Toomer ,Hicks , Mananigham, Steve Smith, victor Cruz
3 , Shockey TE
that was during their successful Coughlin years .
Then there were many lousy years until not sure of year but when Beckham showed up and they had a very good defense.
one year they made playoffs and lost in Green Bay after the Shepard/Beckhem trip to Florida during the week off before the game .
Then nothing again until ....two years ago when they made playoffs and beat Vikings in playoffs...that year Jones played very good down the stretch Ala an Eli year until they got smoked by Philly

all I am saying is that QB's need good players /receivers around them ...and with the exception of very few ..they need a good running game to Support their play.
the ingredients for success are not in New York yet....no mater who the QB is at this point.
Actually, this year with Nabors and a potential new effective running back and decent line they may have
some of the pieces  for the future.    ...Jones needs to prove he can be part of the puzzle ...but so far he has not.

Quote from: Woody on October 14, 2024, 02:33:51 PMNot putting Down Eli ...just trying to make the point that all QBs have bad years and games....Eli's best years were with
1. a good running game Bradshaw and Jacobs
2. very good receivers : Burress, Toomer ,Hicks , Mananigham, Steve Smith, victor Cruz
3 , Shockey TE
that was during their successful Coughlin years .
Then there were many lousy years until not sure of year but when Beckham showed up and they had a very good defense.
one year they made playoffs and lost in Green Bay after the Shepard/Beckhem trip to Florida during the week off before the game .
Then nothing again until ....two years ago when they made playoffs and beat Vikings in playoffs...that year Jones played very good down the stretch Ala an Eli year until they got smoked by Philly

all I am saying is that QB's need good players /receivers around them ...and with the exception of very few ..they need a good running game to Support their play.
the ingredients for success are not in New York yet....no mater who the QB is at this point.
Actually, this year with Nabors and a potential new effective running back and decent line they may have
some of the pieces  for the future.    ...Jones needs to prove he can be part of the puzzle ...but so far he has not.

In 2011, the Giants were dead last in rushing yards, and had PFFs worst rated pass protection; Eli and Cruz carried that offense, and all they did was when a SB. That was also the year Eli earned AP and MVP consideration.  In 2015, Eli's last PB season, he was also saddled with a terrible running game and oline; yet, he produced, despite being in his mid-30s. In sort, the facts directly refute your narrative. 

Quote from: Woody on October 14, 2024, 02:33:51 PMNot putting Down Eli ...just trying to make the point that all QBs have bad years and games....Eli's best years were with
1. a good running game Bradshaw and Jacobs
2. very good receivers : Burress, Toomer ,Hicks , Mananigham, Steve Smith, victor Cruz
3 , Shockey TE
that was during their successful Coughlin years .
Then there were many lousy years until not sure of year but when Beckham showed up and they had a very good defense.
one year they made playoffs and lost in Green Bay after the Shepard/Beckhem trip to Florida during the week off before the game .
Then nothing again until ....two years ago when they made playoffs and beat Vikings in playoffs...that year Jones played very good down the stretch Ala an Eli year until they got smoked by Philly

all I am saying is that QB's need good players /receivers around them ...and with the exception of very few ..they need a good running game to Support their play.
the ingredients for success are not in New York yet....no mater who the QB is at this point.
Actually, this year with Nabors and a potential new effective running back and decent line they may have
some of the pieces  for the future.    ...Jones needs to prove he can be part of the puzzle ...but so far he has not.

1. As much as I loved Bradshaw and Jacobs; they weren't exactly APs. In fact I think Eli played with one AP; JPP who was a defensive player; his whole career. His 2007 tema had one pro bowler Osi Umenyura. He did not play with an AP on his line; that I know. He played with freakin Erick Flowers at one time

2. Victor Cruz was a UDFA.
3. Shockey watched from a press box injured for the whole post season while Eli was winning rings with a rookie TE Kevin Boss and made Larry Darnell an NFL player (he was more like Canadian football leauge)


Let's just face it. Some people elevate players around them and some, just do not have that instinct for the game and are passengers since their mistakes far outweigh their contributions.