Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: T200 on October 14, 2024, 09:19:18 PMLet him.

I'd rather he goes somewhere else and plays better. It ain't happening here and I don't want to waste more seasons hoping Santa Claus comes down the MetLife chimney.

There has not been a single season where you could look at him and say THAT guy is gonna be a great one.  The closest, unfortunately, was that first season with Daboll where they made the playoffs and he was a free agent.  That screwed up the next two seasons.  Let's please not let history repeat itself.  He's not the guy.  They need to find the guy and if they do they will be a very good team next season. 

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on October 14, 2024, 02:44:45 PMMy biggest fear: we cut him, draft a rookie that "might or might not" work out for the Giants...then watch DJ go to a Midwest team and flourish like Sam Darnold, with a little Brady mixed in

The fan base in NYC is harsh (to put it mildly) and an impossibly tough crowd to please, and every mistake is magnified tenfold, and it will be vocalized in a hundred different sources. Take some small place like Indiana, and "poof", the pressure is gone. DJ's Giants' career may be coming to an end, but I seriously doubt his NFL career is coming to an end. Time will tell

If that were going to happen, it would be happening right now, with a #1 receiver and an OL that gives him time to throw. But he's regressing.

At this point, it almost doesn't even matter if we're not at the top of the draft, a day 2 prospect could give us better play for MUCH less cap space.

Quote from: Gmo11 on October 14, 2024, 09:38:20 PMThere has not been a single season where you could look at him and say THAT guy is gonna be a great one.  The closest, unfortunately, was that first season with Daboll where they made the playoffs and he was a free agent.  That screwed up the next two seasons.  Let's please not let history repeat itself.  He's not the guy.  They need to find the guy and if they do they will be a very good team next season. 

Was he not looking very promising in his rookie year?

Quote from: GloryDays on October 14, 2024, 11:07:57 PMWas he not looking very promising in his rookie year?

No. His rookie season was masked by 3 good games, against teams who would have top 5 picks (jets, wash and det).  He had 2.5x more below average than above games.  He's exactly the same QB he's been now for 8 years. Posters chose to view his rookie season in a vacuum, just like they did in 2022. Concerning the latter, I encourage you to review who his best games were against. 

Quote from: GloryDays on October 14, 2024, 11:07:57 PMWas he not looking very promising in his rookie year?

He wasn't then and isn't now. The most infuriating part of this for me is that he's capable of throwing out a great game here and there but simply cannot be consistently good. He'll have a great game sandwhiched between a bunch of bad ones.

It would be easier for everybody to move on if they were all bad games but the idea of seeing him look good from time to time plays tricks on the mind that maybe he could one day put it all together. But if that were gonna happen it'd have happened a long time ago. And certainly won't be happening now. He's got to go.

Quote from: LennG on October 14, 2024, 07:37:09 PMStill the same old, same old, Ted. It's never Jones's fault, always someone else's. Pity you can't see the same thing as everyone else.
You have stressed this 'no separation' for years now. Even if there were separation, Jones was so far off the targets most times, it wouldn't have mattered.
Just keep sticking with it's never his fault, and you'll always be satisfied while the rest of us cry for a legitimate QB back there.

I never once said it wasn't Jones fault. I said the offensive problems weren't just his fault. Big difference


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Quote from: Trench on October 14, 2024, 07:49:14 PMJust read a stat:

Devito - 8 TD passes in 6 starts last year

Jones - 8 TD passes in his last 13 starts

... and your point is? Please stop trying to sell us your claim that DeVito is as good, if not better, than Jones. Anyone can cherry pick stats to support a weak argument.


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Quote from: AYM on October 14, 2024, 09:48:56 PMIf that were going to happen, it would be happening right now, with a #1 receiver and an OL that gives him time to throw. But he's regressing.

At this point, it almost doesn't even matter if we're not at the top of the draft, a day 2 prospect could give us better play for MUCH less cap space.

Jones was 12th in QBR before Sundays game and just about everyone was saying Jones finally has a star WR and is playing well. Now he loses that star WR and everyone is jumping off the bandwagon. Is that we as fans are becoming? What have you done for me lately?

Joe Burrow is the second highest paid QB in the game. He had Higgins and Chase in his arsenal. Yet he did nothing in the passing game. He's never won a thing. Yet he escapes the criticism that Jones gets.


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I think that's a bit of a stretch.  There might have been talk of Jones playing little better.  But that's because the bar is frankly very low. 

Quote from: todge on October 15, 2024, 11:11:29 AMJones was 12th in QBR before Sundays game and just about everyone was saying Jones finally has a star WR and is playing well. Now he loses that star WR and everyone is jumping off the bandwagon. Is that we as fans are becoming? What have you done for me lately?

And now he's 21st in QBR. This is how averages go--sometimes people play well and sometimes they play badly. Unfortunately for Jones the latter is more frequent that the former. I guess if you ignore all his bad games his stats look better... what else were you expecting? Jones was playing efficient football (and versus Seattle, a tick better than that). You're pretending like he made some massive leap forward. No one has said that. Save for one game this season, he can't hit a deep shot to save his life. It's limited the offense and defenses are adjusting.

Its been six years of Jones. Unbelievable you try to paint fans as fickle for having valid criticisms of a guy who has been wholly average (at best) while amassing a 24-40-1 record as a starting QB. Is Carl Banks just fickle when he called Jones a role-player and said that the defense cannot overcome below average play from the quarterback position? Or is this just an inconvenient opinion you can dismiss because it doesn't jive with what you want to be true?

QuoteJoe Burrow is the second highest paid QB in the game. He had Higgins and Chase in his arsenal. Yet he did nothing in the passing game. He's never won a thing. Yet he escapes the criticism that Jones gets.

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Burrow had a 87.8 QBR in the Giants game. Love how you use that stat to boost Jones when its convenient, and completely ignore it in attacking the guy playing across from him. So desperate to defending anything Jones you can't be consistent.

It's unreal--honestly, UNREAL--that you try to imply Jones and Burrow have similar achievements. Its not worth wasting my time laying out all the ways in which Burrow has wildly outperformed Jones in the NFL. He's a massively better player than Jones by any metric and its a joke that you feel free to argue they're comparable players in any way.

Quote from: todge on October 15, 2024, 11:11:29 AMJones was 12th in QBR before Sundays game and just about everyone was saying Jones finally has a star WR and is playing well. Now he loses that star WR and everyone is jumping off the bandwagon. Is that we as fans are becoming? What have you done for me lately?

Joe Burrow is the second highest paid QB in the game. He had Higgins and Chase in his arsenal. Yet he did nothing in the passing game. He's never won a thing. Yet he escapes the criticism that Jones gets.


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and 29th in Passer Rating

When Jones relapses into the poor decisions, inaccurate passes, missed open receivers, and checkdowns; it will be relative because it is a major portion of the development that has to occur to be retained.

Quote from: todge on October 15, 2024, 11:11:29 AMJones was 12th in QBR before Sundays game and just about everyone was saying Jones finally has a star WR and is playing well. Now he loses that star WR and everyone is jumping off the bandwagon. Is that we as fans are becoming? What have you done for me lately?

Joe Burrow is the second highest paid QB in the game. He had Higgins and Chase in his arsenal. Yet he did nothing in the passing game. He's never won a thing. Yet he escapes the criticism that Jones gets.


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And now he's 21st in QBR and 29th in RTG.  It's odd and intellectually disingenuous to promote a stat when it fits your narrative, and completely ignore it when it doesn't.  If you value QBR as a metric, then you must accept that DJ is currently a bottom 10 QB.   Oh, his current performance is with top 10 pass blocking and perfect weather, playing against injury riddled defenses (e.g. Dal, Seattle, and Cinci), who have struggled this year. His performance doesn't appear to be impacted by Nabers availability: 

With    Nabers = 1 - 3 W/L 220 Yards 1 TD 1 INT   84 RTG (per game average)
Without Nabers = 1 - 1 W/L 231 Yards 1 TD 1 INT   84 RTG (per game average)

To date, DJ's had 3 good games and 3 bad games:

Bad Games:  59% 224 YDS   0 TDS  2 INT   61 RTG
Good Games: 65% 223 YDS   2 TDS  0 INT   106 RTG
                              
*Note - His good games came against the NFL's #15, 20 and 22d ranked defenses; he's yet to play a top 12 defense.  Seattle and Dal were also missing more than 50% of their defensive starters.

Your comments concerning Joe Burrow reflect your bias towards your opinion, despite the facts.  Joe Burrow has played two full seasons; in both seasons, he was an All-Pro/MVP-candidate and led his team to the AFC Championship game.  Oh, he accomplished both feats with bottom half olines; his 2021 oline was ranked 26th and allowed a playoff record 19 sacks.  Perhaps you missed the AFC Championship game where he took a beating (Sacked 9x); yet, persevered.  You probably blocked that from your memory because it directly refutes your narrative.  This year, he's on another AP/PB trajectory:

4471 YARDS 72% 34TD 5 Int 111 RTG. 

He's a perianal All Pro, which is why he doesn't receive criticism beyond his inability to stay healthy.

You have lectured to us in the past that stats are for fantasy football; instead, you're primary concerned with "command of the offense."  Well, the Giants are currently 29th in the NFL with a measly 16 points per game; before you insert that Nabers has adversely impacted our scoring offense, I'll remind you the Giants have actually scored more points without him than with him (18 vs 15 PPG).  So, by your own metrics, DJ is not performing well; yet, here you are, lecturing the board about points directly refuted by the facts. One sure way to lose credibility is to ignore said facts in favor of your own reality....

Quote from: Trench on October 13, 2024, 11:06:29 PMDaniel Jones is a good person, a good Giant. Team guy.

Can we all agree once and for all that he is NOT the QB of our future?

His performance tonight on the national stage was abysmal and he did nothing to propel his team. This man hasn't thrown a TD pass at home in 2 years, cannot extend a drive at home, and is now 1-15 on national tv.

To all my Jones fans, I respectfully ask have we finally seen enough?

No

The roster was designed to give Jones the year to develop. 

I find it hard to believe it will be cut short, especially considering the positive play he has produced. 

He has shown signs of growth but the relapses should give huge caution to the FO.  IF there are too many more I suspect that in itself will be enough reason to part ways.  

I have supported Daniel Jones from Day One, and still do not blame him for the money he has been given despite the team's 24-40-1 record while he's been the QB to date. Nor do I fault him for my having come to the conclusion that he is not likely to ever become a consistent winner as he lacks any sort of leadership ability; it just isn't in him.

Whether they move on sooner rather than latter likely will depend on either or both of two things: Mara's acceptance of Gettleman's error to be shared by Schoen/Daboll and additional Cost/Risk of DJ's Injury Guarantee. As we say in French, C'est la... naw, better to go with Ah Merde!

Cheers!