Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: sxdxca38 on October 16, 2024, 12:12:47 PMDaniel Jones last 4 games were

67% 6 TD 1 Int 96 RTG

It's amazing to me that after he has one bad game the wolves have all come out.

I believe it's presumptuous to make the claim that he's not the QB of the future just yet.

The balanced and reasonable approach is to see what we have after the season.

11 more games to go

Good God man. Hope springs eternal. 

The only way Daniel Jones returns for the 2025 season is with a massive pay cut and the understanding that he's a stop-gap.

He has too much mileage to be considered the "quarterback of the future" at this point, given the upside he's demonstrated on even his best day. If he does have some sort of a late stage resurgence, it won't be here.

It's over.

The epitaph of Daniel Jones will be he's running free for a sure td against  the Eagles. Pure sprint. And he falls down. That's it right there 

And Jones was terrible,in three losses..Vikings..Pokes..Bengals .left points on the field..threw grounders..cmon he isn't the answer

Quote from: Gmo11 on October 16, 2024, 12:17:20 PMWe've done that 5 times. At the end of every season the answer is the same. He's not the guy.

Actually that would be incorrect, in 2022 he posted a 92.3 RTG and a 60.6 QBR which both ranked him 13th and 6th respectfully.

On another note if he had  good game last week we wouldn't have heard a peep out of one of you guys

Quote from: sxdxca38 on October 16, 2024, 02:02:16 PMActually that would be incorrect, in 2022 he posted a 92.3 RTG and a 60.6 QBR which both ranked him 13th and 6th respectfully.

On another note if he had  good game last week we wouldn't have heard a peep out of one of you guys

Not true, when he's played well I've congratulated him. See the game thread of the at HT vs Seahawks - the Second half v Arizona last year. The final 8 mins and OTof the New Orleans a few years back, amongst others.

He has had good games.

But not hearing a peep is a little ironic considering you didn't even want to post the numbers on Monday.

Quote from: sxdxca38 on October 16, 2024, 02:02:16 PMActually that would be incorrect, in 2022 he posted a 92.3 RTG and a 60.6 QBR which both ranked him 13th and 6th respectfully.

On another note if he had  good game last week we wouldn't have heard a peep out of one of you guys

Why are you triggered by folks posting his shortcomings to show he is not the future? He has more bad games than good. Yes, his supporting cast hasn't been the best but that hasn't been the case this season and he still can't crack the top 10 in QB performance despite the upgrade in pass protection and getting a #1 receiver, things his most ardent supporters said he was lacking and if he had those, we'd see a much better Jones. Fact is that he's had those this year and he hasn't been any better than his best season in 2022 to which many of you refer. And if you recall, he didn't have a #1 receiver and his pass protection was crap.

So how do you reconcile his performance with upgrades to all of his support pillars (coaching, offensive line, #1 receiver) this season to 2022 when he didn't have the same support but his numbers this year are no better than 2022?

Quote from: T200 on October 16, 2024, 02:14:30 PMWhy are you triggered by folks posting his shortcomings to show he is not the future? He has more bad games than good. Yes, his supporting cast hasn't been the best but that hasn't been the case this season and he still can't crack the top 10 in QB performance despite the upgrade in pass protection and getting a #1 receiver, things his most ardent supporters said he was lacking and if he had those, we'd see a much better Jones. Fact is that he's had those this year and he hasn't been any better than his best season in 2022 to which many of you refer. And if you recall, he didn't have a #1 receiver and his pass protection was crap.

So how do you reconcile his performance with upgrades to all of his support pillars (coaching, offensive line, #1 receiver) this season to 2022 when he didn't have the same support but his numbers this year are no better than 2022?

Actually I'm not triggered, may I ask why my comment has made you upset?

As far as having more bad games then good games this year is not technically correct. He has had 4 good games this year, to just two bad games.

As far as having a #1 WR, we need to remember that Malik hasn't been starting the past two games, right?

My point of expression is why not allow the season to play out before making a rash decision?

The Browns jettisoned Mayfield and it was the wrong move, the Jets jettisoned Darnold and it was the wrong move.

We need to have patience here, as time will show us if he is the future or not

Quote from: sxdxca38 on October 16, 2024, 02:49:51 PMActually I'm not triggered, may I ask why my comment has made you upset?

Your responses to this and other threads/posts regarding his stats come across as being very defensive. I don't see anything in my response that indicate I'm upset. Far from it.

Quote from: sxdxca38 on October 16, 2024, 02:49:51 PMAs far as having more bad games then good games this year is not technically correct. He has had 4 good games this year, to just two bad games.

I'm not talking about just this year. It's about his career as a whole and his ability to lead the Giants to more victories than losses.

Quote from: sxdxca38 on October 16, 2024, 02:49:51 PMAs far as having a #1 WR, we need to remember that Malik hasn't been starting the past two games, right?

Correct. With Malik, Jones is 1-3, without Malik, he's 1-1. The victory, as you recall, was on the road where the 12th man is notorious for being a factor in disrupting a visiting offense's timing and communication. To Jones' credit, he played very well WITHOUT Malik. So to me, I'm wondering how is it he can be very effective on the road in a hostile environment without Nabers but in the confines of his own home stadium, he craps the bed. And it isn't just this season: he's historically bad at home.

Quote from: sxdxca38 on October 16, 2024, 02:49:51 PMMy point of expression is why not allow the season to play out before making a rash decision?

What rash decision is being made? It's been over 5 seasons now and with or without sufficient support, Jones has not shown that he is a difference maker at the QB position for our team. You highlight a couple of good games he has had but I can do the same with a broken clock and point out when it's right 2 out of the 1440 minutes of a day.

Quote from: sxdxca38 on October 16, 2024, 02:49:51 PMThe Browns jettisoned Mayfield and it was the wrong move, the Jets jettisoned Darnold and it was the wrong move.

It was the right move for those teams if they felt the QB was not performing at the level they needed to win.

Quote from: sxdxca38 on October 16, 2024, 02:49:51 PMWe need to have patience here, as time will show us if he is the future or not

How much time and patience do you feel it will take before you know if he's the future or not?

A smarter, bolder organization (the Giants are not), would have cut ties with the QB when the new coach and GM were hired. They would have either spent the first year with a stop gap replacement, or even packaged the two top ten picks that year for future number ones to get their guy the following year. What they did in 2022 was and is irrelevant to the building of the team. That year and it's wins and success actually hurt the future of the team. It was a mirage that set the team back in so many ways. Sometimes you really got to suck to get better (see Washington and Houston).

Quote from: katkavage on October 16, 2024, 04:19:47 PMA smarter, bolder organization (the Giants are not), would have cut ties with the QB when the new coach and GM were hired. They would have either spent the first year with a stop gap replacement, or even packaged the two top ten picks that year for future number ones to get their guy the following year. What they did in 2022 was and is irrelevant to the building of the team. That year and it's wins and success actually hurt the future of the team. It was a mirage that set the team back in so many ways. Sometimes you really got to suck to get better (see Washington and Houston).

I agree 100%. How many coaches has this guy survived? He was drafted by Gettleman and Pat Shurmur benches Eli in game 2 ? WHy bring him back?

Then Joe Judge, and then Daboll.

But "the Giants have done everything to ruin the Daniel Jones" and "every candidate I spoke with for the GM and HC position is excited about Daniel Jones...."

Yea right! That has to be some kind of record for surviving coach changes.

I think we need to do away with using the old "QB Rating" stat as any kind of proof around here.  It's an ancient stat that proves virtually nothing and IMO shouldn't be a reference for the most "knowledgeable Giants fans".

Here is exhibit A, take a guess which QB's team won the game 42-14(QB Rating is the furthest number to the right):



Sorry this off topic

Quote from: T200 on October 16, 2024, 03:01:58 PMYour responses to this and other threads/posts regarding his stats come across as being very defensive. I don't see anything in my response that indicate I'm upset. Far from it.
I'm not talking about just this year. It's about his career as a whole and his ability to lead the Giants to more victories than losses.
Correct. With Malik, Jones is 1-3, without Malik, he's 1-1. The victory, as you recall, was on the road where the 12th man is notorious for being a factor in disrupting a visiting offense's timing and communication. To Jones' credit, he played very well WITHOUT Malik. So to me, I'm wondering how is it he can be very effective on the road in a hostile environment without Nabers but in the confines of his own home stadium, he craps the bed. And it isn't just this season: he's historically bad at home.
What rash decision is being made? It's been over 5 seasons now and with or without sufficient support, Jones has not shown that he is a difference maker at the QB position for our team. You highlight a couple of good games he has had but I can do the same with a broken clock and point out when it's right 2 out of the 1440 minutes of a day.
It was the right move for those teams if they felt the QB was not performing at the level they needed to win.
How much time and patience do you feel it will take before you know if he's the future or not?

Several key points we need to address.

A) In 2022 he played very well throughout the whole year, and it wasn't just a few games, as that was Daboll's first year. Outside of his first game in 2024, he's playing well again, so let's see how the year plays out.

B) His record at home and why he struggles at home I agree with you. He's a much better QB on the road than at home. Why he struggles? I believe it's a mental thing, because he feels the pressure from the fans at home to succeed, but when he's on the road there are no expectations.

C) I respectfully disagree with regards to Mayfield and Darnold. Both teams made the wrong decision on moving on from them. Mayfield had proven that he was a good QB, and there was no reason to move on from him. The Jets only gave Darnold three seasons, and now they are regretting their decision.

D) All I'm asking is to allow Daniel Jones to play for the entire year, and then see what you have before being ready to just jettison him. Having patience in this regard is the wise move, being presumptuous can lead to a disastrous decision and make things worse.

I have nothing more to say, so feel free to express yourself. 

Quote from: sxdxca38 on October 16, 2024, 05:41:23 PM
I have nothing more to say, so feel free to express yourself. 

I guess I don't get an answer to my question...

How much time and patience do you feel it will take before you know if he's the future or not?

Quote from: T200 on October 16, 2024, 03:01:58 PMIt was the right move for those teams if they felt the QB was not performing at the level they needed to win.

100%. Sometimes players just need a change of scenery...or some situations just can't work out for them. It goes beyond the system they're in or even the players around them. Real life isn't Madden. 

Quote from: TONKA56 on October 16, 2024, 07:38:06 PM100%. Sometimes players just need a chance of scenery...or some situations just can't work out for them. It goes beyond the system they're in or even the players around them. Real life isn't Madden. 

Exactly. Matt Stafford would not have won a SB in Detroit and the Rams would not have won it with Goff.

Ironically, Goff looks like he has a better chance to win one in Detroit than Stafford ever did there.