Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: T200 on October 16, 2024, 07:24:28 PMI guess I don't get an answer to my question...

How much time and patience do you feel it will take before you know if he's the future or not?

End of the season, for me.  Exactly as it was at the start of the season.

Quote from: T200 on October 16, 2024, 07:24:28 PMI guess I don't get an answer to my question...

How much time and patience do you feel it will take before you know if he's the future or not?

Hi Tim,

I did answer the question, I said to let him play for the entire year and we will all know if he is the answer or not.

Quote from: sxdxca38 on October 16, 2024, 08:37:43 PMHi Tim,

I did answer the question, I said to let him play for the entire year and we will all know if he is the answer or not.

Hes a 6 year vet, they know what they have, this is top tier delusion

Quote from: sxdxca38 on October 16, 2024, 08:37:43 PMHi Tim,

I did answer the question, I said to let him play for the entire year and we will all know if he is the answer or not.

Are you expecting anything different than the first four years?

Does Andrew Thomas going down mean that you have to wait another year to assess Jones?

 If so, if this team doesn't kick the injury bug at some point we are going to be in Jones 11th season still trying to decide if he is the guy. 

Quote from: MrGap92 on October 16, 2024, 09:16:17 PMHes a 6 year vet, they know what they have, this is top tier delusion

It's generally not good to associate someone as being delusional, I haven't done that to you, so please don't do that to me

Quote from: T200 on October 16, 2024, 09:34:27 PMAre you expecting anything different than the first four years?

Yes, I am, so far, he has thrown for 1343 yards, this has him ranked 11th in the NFL.

He's projected to throw for 3800 yards, but he has a shot to throw for over 4,000 yards, which he's never done before.

I'm also expecting him to have a two to one ratio of TD's to Int's

Will he be the future of this franchise moving forward?

I don't know, but that is why I'm encouraging everyone to have some patience and lets see what we have by the end of the year.

The answer will become clear one way or the other.

Quote from: sxdxca38 on October 16, 2024, 09:50:29 PMYes, I am, so far, he has thrown for 1343 yards, this has him ranked 11th in the NFL.

He's projected to throw for 3800 yards, but he has a shot to throw for over 4,000 yards, which he's never done before.

I'm also expecting him to have a two to one ratio of TD's to Int's

Will he be the future of this franchise moving forward?

I don't know, but that is why I'm encouraging everyone to have some patience and lets see what we have by the end of the year.

The answer will become clear one way or the other.

I appreciate your response.

With regards to patience, not everyone needs to see more. Some of us have seen enough and another year only serves to solidify what's already been seen the previous years.

It's great that you want to wait and continue to have hope. For others, the SS Hope is docked next to the SS Minnow, stranded with Gilligan.

Quote from: T200 on October 16, 2024, 09:34:27 PMAre you expecting anything different than the first four years?

In the first 4 years the team had a bottom 5 OL, no receiving weapons and poor coaching.  Do you expect that those things didn't have an impact on his development and performance?

I think he is likely toast at this point, but I want to see if he can recover from the terrible development environment he endured. 

Quote from: sxdxca38 on October 16, 2024, 09:50:29 PMYes, I am, so far, he has thrown for 1343 yards, this has him ranked 11th in the NFL.

He's projected to throw for 3800 yards, but he has a shot to throw for over 4,000 yards, which he's never done before.

I'm also expecting him to have a two to one ratio of TD's to Int's

Will he be the future of this franchise moving forward?

I don't know, but that is why I'm encouraging everyone to have some patience and lets see what we have by the end of the year.

The answer will become clear one way or the other.

DJ is 27th in yards per attempt--his aggregate yardage ranking is due to volume. He's not passing with any depth and still looks incapable of consistently threatening defenses vertically, which most recently the Bengals played to (if you weren't aware). And furthermore, this overall yardage is clearly not contributing to Giants scoring in any meaningful manner, as they're bottom of the barrell.

You keep changing which metric is relevant to evaluating him. It was extrapolating TDs for a bit. When that started looking bad for him, it became QBR. When he tanked this past week and his QBR dropped to bottom third, you started showing his ranking from earlier weeks. Now, we're going off just yardage. It's difficult to take this seriously when you appear to have a clear agenda in changing the measuring stick for DJ's performance, constantly in his defense.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on October 16, 2024, 10:26:28 PMIn the first 4 years the team had a bottom 5 OL, no receiving weapons and poor coaching.  Do you expect that those things didn't have an impact on his development and performance?

I think he is likely toast at this point, but I want to see if he can recover from the terrible development environment he endured. 

They did indeed have an adverse affect on his development. That's not in question.

The telling seasons are 2022 and this season. To your point, and I think we ALL agree, specifically in 2022, Jones had one of the worst offensive lines and no true #1 wide receiver. Despite the lack of support, he had his best professional year and won a playoff game.

How was he able to get to the playoffs and win a game with the poor support but this season with much better support, his performance is at the same 2022 levels?

Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on October 16, 2024, 10:43:38 PMDJ is 27th in yards per attempt--his aggregate yardage ranking is due to volume. He's not passing with any depth and still looks incapable of consistently threatening defenses vertically, which most recently the Bengals played to (if you weren't aware). And furthermore, this overall yardage is clearly not contributing to Giants scoring in any meaningful manner, as they're bottom of the barrell.

You keep changing which metric is relevant to evaluating him. It was extrapolating TDs for a bit. When that started looking bad for him, it became QBR. When he tanked this past week and his QBR dropped to bottom third, you started showing his ranking from earlier weeks. Now, we're going off just yardage. It's difficult to take this seriously when you appear to have a clear agenda in changing the measuring stick for DJ's performance, constantly in his defense.

Sir, 

Your tone is completely out of line and uncalled for. Telling someone that they have a clear agenda, and you can't take this seriously is not what is promoted here as far as guideline rules. I haven't done that to you, so don't do it to me.

Secondly, if you had actually read what T200's question was for me, he specifically asked what would be different?

The answer was he is projected to throw for 3,800 yards which he hasn't done before, which would be a new career high, and can potentially throw for 4,000 yards as well.

On a final note, I've noticed your last several comments towards me have been quite snarky, degrading and uncalled for, as its not tolerated here. You can take a lesson from T200's response to me as it was done respectfully and with class, as I am thankful he is a moderator.

Quote from: sxdxca38 on October 16, 2024, 11:04:46 PMSir, 

Your tone is completely out of line and uncalled for. Telling someone that they have a clear agenda, and you can't take this seriously is not what is promoted here as far as guideline rules. I haven't done that to you, so don't do it to me.

Secondly, if you had actually read what T200's question was for me, he specifically asked what would be different?

The answer was he is projected to throw for 3,800 yards which he hasn't done before, which would be a new career high, and can potentially throw for 4,000 yards as well.

On a final note, I've noticed your last several comments towards me have been quite snarky, degrading and uncalled for, as its not tolerated here. You can take a lesson from T200's response to me as it was done respectfully and with class, as I am thankful he is a moderator.

Style over substance.

You can feel indignation if you so choose, but I think it unwarranted. If I've been "degrading," or acted in a manner which is "uncalled for," I'm sure it would have been brought to the attention of the moderators. I've never attacked you. Your statements, like mine, are not above thoughtful consideration and rebuttal. Disagreement, even spirited, is not "degrading." What I said is factual, followed by the natural inference from those facts. You don't like the inference I've drawn. And you don't have to. That doesn't make it wrong to identify.

Its rather surprising to me you call foul about my language--you just told me a few days ago I was "cherry picking" plays to portray Jones in a negative light and that I was being "inconsistent." I didn't accuse you of "degrading" or "snarky" behavior, I merely chose to disagree with your assertion and gave my reasons why. I don't mind at all being challenged when I state something affirmatively--I'm wrong a lot so I'm used to pushback. That is why I felt no need to accuse you of improper behavior when you said I was inconsistent or parsing the data against DJ, because ultimately it wasn't offensive to me that we disagreed and you challenged me. In light all this, I would not have expected comments sounding in inconsistency or data choice to be objectionable to you. I guess I was mistaken.

My point was Jones aggregate yardage is meaningless given the volume Jones is throwing the ball and the attendant inefficiency. So it's not that different and I would say it doesn't represent meaningful improvement (which is what I would expect to be the barometer for "different," but that was T200's words and if you were operating under another definition about what he meant, then it appears I have misunderstood what you both had settled on). Regardless, I've noticed no actual response to that.

Quote from: T200 on October 16, 2024, 10:51:54 PMThey did indeed have an adverse affect on his development. That's not in question.

The telling seasons are 2022 and this season. To your point, and I think we ALL agree, specifically in 2022, Jones had one of the worst offensive lines and no true #1 wide receiver. Despite the lack of support, he had his best professional year and won a playoff game.

How was he able to get to the playoffs and win a game with the poor support but this season with much better support, his performance is at the same 2022 levels?

Coming back from an injury which he may still be rusty from is a possibility.  As is re-learning to play with some confidence in his OL, and having a running game.

Look, I'm not saying he's going to make it, but I'd like to see how he does for a season under better conditions than he's ever had previously before I close the book on him.  Hence my answer of no to the OP question.  It's not as if they really have any alternative on the roster.  Why would I want to write him off and expect the worst and be miserable every week?  Before I'd go that route I'd just stop following them and just tune out for the season and focus on my futbol team who have had a splendid start under a new manager.  I don't live and die by this stuff.

All this talk of wait and see when it comes to Jones seems silly to me because what other choice do they have. They're stuck with him for the rest of the season no matter what. If he was at all tradeable he'd likely be in Miami right now. But not only is he bad he's significantly overpaid. So yes they'll ride this season out but I would be stunned and confused if he's still starting next season...for the Giants or any other team. We know what he is and what he is ain't good.