Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 21, 2024, 08:51:37 AMBench DJ finds out Lock plays even worse in the same environment.

DJ-  QB Rating- 77.3  QBR- 16.6

Lock-  QB Rating- 45.8  QBR- 7.6

Let me preface my following comments: I think Lock is a worse QB than Jones. That being said, I don't think it's fair to evaluate him as a certainty under these conditions. Lock didn't have reps with the 1st team in practice this week. Lock came into a game that was well out of hand. And I'm not saying to go with him as the starter, but I think we're getting close to the injury guarantee being too much of a factor. And I would say that Lock has what Jones currently lacks: a live arm. The incomplete throw to Hyatt down the sideline was about the most interesting play we've seen in two weeks. DJ is still going to be leagues ahead of him in the short game, but unfortunately that is all the Giants can do with Jones and defenses take that away without a threat downfield.

Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on October 21, 2024, 09:33:22 AMLet me preface my following comments: I think Lock is a worse QB than Jones. That being said, I don't think it's fair to evaluate him as a certainty under these conditions. Lock didn't have reps with the 1st team in practice this week. Lock came into a game that was well out of hand. And I'm not saying to go with him as the starter, but I think we're getting close to the injury guarantee being too much of a factor. And I would say that Lock has what Jones currently lacks: a live arm. The incomplete throw to Hyatt down the sideline was about the most interesting play we've seen in two weeks. DJ is still going to be leagues ahead of him in the short game, but unfortunately that is all the Giants can do with Jones and defenses take that away without a threat downfield.

It's funny how we can dismiss stats generated when the game is out of hand in both directions.  If a QB plays well, he is accused of generating garbage time stats when a defense has eased up.  When they play poorly you excuse the play as, well the game was out of hand.

Lock is the current version of 1995 Tommy Maddox. Too awful to even replace the failed Duke QBS of these respective teams.

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 21, 2024, 09:37:27 AMIt's funny how we can dismiss stats generated when the game is out of hand in both directions.  If a QB plays well, he is accused of generating garbage time stats when a defense has eased up.  When they play poorly you excuse the play as, well the game was out of hand.

I thought--just like I've been hearing about Jones for years now--we had to give context to a player's performance? And I thought they were "reasons," not "excuses" or is that term now acceptable to you? I fully expect Lock to be bad if he has to start in place of Jones (which I'm not sure is happening yet). So I don't know what the issue with acknowledging that he had materially different circumstances than Jones in terms of preparation and the game situation he entered. If you think they were effectively the same circumstances and Lock should've been expected to perform as best as he is able, you can say so.

I don't really want to quibble with you about Lock, because--like I said--I don't think he's very good. If you expected more from him under the circumstances, sure. If you think he's a superior player to Jones, I agree with you.

Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on October 21, 2024, 10:29:07 AMI thought--just like I've been hearing about Jones for years now--we had to give context to a player's performance? And I thought they were "reasons," not "excuses" or is that term now acceptable to you? I fully expect Lock to be bad if he has to start in place of Jones (which I'm not sure is happening yet). So I don't know what the issue with acknowledging that he had materially different circumstances than Jones in terms of preparation and the game situation he entered. If you think they were effectively the same circumstances and Lock should've been expected to perform as best as he is able, you can say so.

I don't really want to quibble with you about Lock, because--like I said--I don't think he's very good. If you expected more from him under the circumstances, sure. If you think he's a superior player to Jones, I agree with you.

I also ask for consistency.  In the end, Jones and Lock played the same offense (against the same defense) but with different results.  You can try to excuse Lock for playing worse, but when the game is that out of hand, defenses aren't exactly going all out.  If you feel that my disagreeing was me taking "issue," that "issue" would be trying to paint garbage time (with the game well out of hand) as a time QBs have a harder time generating stats (since the reality is the opposite is true)

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 21, 2024, 10:33:15 AMI also ask for consistency.  In the end, Jones and Lock played the same offense (against the same defense) but with different results.  You can try to excuse Lock for playing worse, but when the game is that out of hand, defenses aren't exactly going all out.  If you feel that my disagreeing was me taking "issue," that "issue" would be trying to paint garbage time (with the game well out of hand) as a time QBs have a harder time generating stats (since the reality is the opposite is true)

I haven't spoken about Jones racking up garbage time stats at all this season (because he hasn't), so your "inconsistency" attack is misplaced. If that's where we are in this conversation, feel free to have the last word.

Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on October 21, 2024, 11:24:56 AMI haven't spoken about Jones racking up garbage time stats at all this season (because he hasn't), so your "inconsistency" attack is misplaced. If that's where we are in this conversation, feel free to have the last word.

Well there is this:

Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on September 09, 2024, 01:34:20 PMNot that you need a lecture, but that's both the benefit and detriment of PFF: a complete lack of context. A beautiful garbage time throw is as valued the same as one that wins a game. For context, QBR (17.4) tells us Jones detracted heavily from the Giants' chances of winning the game.

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 21, 2024, 10:33:15 AMI also ask for consistency.  In the end, Jones and Lock played the same offense (against the same defense) but with different results.  You can try to excuse Lock for playing worse, but when the game is that out of hand, defenses aren't exactly going all out.  If you feel that my disagreeing was me taking "issue," that "issue" would be trying to paint garbage time (with the game well out of hand) as a time QBs have a harder time generating stats (since the reality is the opposite is true)

And Devito played the same Eagles team last year and he beat em.

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 21, 2024, 11:27:29 AMWell there is this:

On September 9th, after Jones posted a 22-42 line with 186 total passing yards the day before, your accusation is that I was implying Jones racked up garbage time stats? By accurately reflecting how PFF values throws? When Jones threw a whopping 44 yards in the 4th quarter? All this you use to say I'm inconsistent for somehow not taking Lock to task?

You made an incorrect accusation (likely just assumed it about me). Just stop.

Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on October 21, 2024, 11:40:15 AMOn September 9th, after Jones posted a 22-42 line with 186 total passing yards the day before, your accusation is that I was implying Jones racked up garbage time stats? By accurately reflecting how PFF values throws? When Jones threw a whopping 44 yards in the 4th quarter? All this you use to say I'm inconsistent for somehow not taking Lock to task?

You made an incorrect accusation (likely just assumed it about me). Just stop.

No, you made it clear you have a belief that the part of the game Lock played in is considered "garbage time" where the QBs can rack of good but meaningless stats.  Yet when I pointed out that Lock played even worse than Jones you suddenly pretended that "garbage time" is even harder just to disagree.