Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Trench on October 21, 2024, 11:13:42 AMDidnt Devito beat the Eagles last year?...Jones hasn't even thrown a TD at home in close to 2 years. How worse can he be?

With his 2 passes for 14 yards?

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 21, 2024, 11:17:36 AMWith his 2 passes for 14 yards?

Did he win?....all I see around here is Jones stats are this and that. All making excuses for him when he wins without big game stats.

Quote from: Trench on October 21, 2024, 11:40:30 AMDid he win?....all I see around here is Jones stats are this and that. All making excuses for him when he wins without big game stats.

I wouldn't give him the win.  I would give that to Tyrod Taylor who completed 23 passes on 32 attempts for    297 yards and a TD (and one INT)   

I have no idea what you are ranting about in terms of "Jones" and "excuses' but you be you

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 21, 2024, 11:44:29 AMI wouldn't give him the win.  I would give that to Tyrod Taylor who completed 23 passes on 32 attempts for    297 yards and a TD (and one INT)   

I have no idea what you are ranting about in terms of "Jones" and "excuses' but you be you

Easy Rich. Not ranting my friend. Just offering my opinion is all.

Quote from: Trench on October 21, 2024, 11:50:59 AMEasy Rich. Not ranting my friend. Just offering my opinion is all.

So what did your claim that-  "all I see around here is Jones stats are this and that. All making excuses for him when he wins without big game stats."

Have to do with me not giving DeVito credit for beating the Eagles when that credit rightfully belonged to Tyrod Taylor?

After yesterday's complete dismantling, NO quarterback on the Giants' roster has a chance in hell when it comes to competing against their NFC East rivals. That grade is in and they've failed.

My opinion: NONE of these quarterbacks will be on the roster next season.

As for Tommy "Chicken Cutlets," I enjoyed his 15 minutes of fame, including his cult following off the field, but that's over now and it's time to move on. If it came down to a vote here, as to whether or not he should play, by all means, send him in, but is it going to make a difference? That I just do not have any confidence in.

What scares me most is that one player, even though it was their best player, on the offensive line goes down, the whole system went down like dominoes. I am disturbed by that.

Something broke yesterday and the season went with it beyond a shadow of a doubt. If you wish to argue the QB, that's fine. If you want to say the secondary, that's fine. Point to whatever you'd like, and you'll be right. Take it all the way up to the top of the chain of command, and you won't be wrong. It's broken beyond repair and there's only one thing left to do:

- Ticket burning ceremonies in the urinals
- Planes flying over the stadium with messages to John Mara from angry Giants fans
- Stop attending the games at home
- Turn the TV off
- Tell John we're turning our back on his product until he backs off and hires the best Pro Football independent assessment team to recommend how to tear down his football operation, how to rebuild it into a perennial winner/contender and provide recommendations on personnel who are capable of doing it and what they need from an owner so they can do their job as well as possible and then the owner backs away and stays out of it.

OK - maybe more than just one thing left to do!

Peace!

Quote from: kartanoman on October 21, 2024, 12:23:18 PMWhat scares me most is that one player, even though it was their best player, on the offensive line goes down, the whole system went down like dominoes. I am disturbed by that.

Chris,

While some disagreed with me, I tried to explain last week that Thomas was a very special player who allowed the rest of the O-line to play better.  By leaving Thomas on an island, all help could be devoted to the other 4 O-linemen.

By subbing in Ezeudu for Thomas, they downgraded the position by two steps.  They went from an OT who could play on an islanding, allowing his teammates to be helped, to a LT who needed help, which meant not only did the rest of the line not get the help they were used to, but they needed to direct the extra help that was available to heavily assist Ezeudu (or allow his shortcoming to just blow up plays)

The team will likely move Eluemunor to LT and then play either Neal or Hubbard (I would go, Hubbard, unless Neal has been impressive behind the scenes) at RT.  Elemunor at LT will be a downgrade to Thomas, but he will need less help than Ezeudu, which should help the rest of the line somewhat. 
 

No matter what opinions the fans might have about "tanking" the coaching staff is going to do everything it can to win games. Best make peace with that. Doug Pedersen was fired and the Eagles were shelled by fans and media alike for that very thing. We aren't hypocrites are we?

Quote from: TONKA56 on October 21, 2024, 12:40:35 PMNo matter what opinions the fans might have about "tanking" the coaching staff is going to do everything it can to win games. Best make peace with that. Doug Pedersen was fired and the Eagles were shelled by fans and media alike for that very thing. We aren't hypocrites are we?

For what it's worth, I think there are two forms of tanking.  One is trading away players you don't intend to retain for extra draft capital.  That is considered a reasonable form of tanking.  The other is the example you cited, or some fans are advocating for, which is to bench players for lesser talent.   That form of tanking is still frowned upon by many, as you pointed out.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on October 20, 2024, 05:02:22 PMNo.  Neither has Jones.  When the OL played well he had decent games.  Not great games, but decent ones.

Jones rose to 12th in QBR which is more than enough to win games. But as is usually the case, you can get good QB play and still not win. If the Giants had a kicker and if Nabers doesn't drop a perfect pass, the Giants win that game.

It's a fine line between winning and losing in this league. I'm not defending Jones - just pointing out that this is a team game. The other 21 players and the coaching staff all impact Ws and Ls.

Now we have a horrific offensive line situation where it doesn't matter who the QB is. Just harken back to our Super Bowl wins. Many will tell you that our pass rush was primarily responsible for the victories. Those QBs were under mild pressure and didn't win. Jones was subjected to 8 sacks, 10 hits, 10 hurries and just couldn't do his job. What many forget is that once a QB doesn't trust his protection, his internal clock speeds up anticipating pressure. This leads to focusing on his primary receiver only and not going through his progressions.

As evidenced by the 2022 road playoff victory, Jones has proven you can win with him. But without a supporting cast and a coaching staff doing their job, you can't win. Yet many still believe, change the QB and all will be well.

As George Young said: "show me a struggling team and I'll show you a team with a struggling offensive line".


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Quote from: MightyGiants on October 21, 2024, 12:34:10 PMChris,

While some disagreed with me, I tried to explain last week that Thomas was a very special player who allowed the rest of the O-line to play better.  By leaving Thomas on an island, all help could be devoted to the other 4 O-linemen.

By subbing in Ezeudu for Thomas, they downgraded the position by two steps.  They went from an OT who could play on an islanding, allowing his teammates to be helped, to a LT who needed help, which meant not only did the rest of the line not get the help they were used to, but they needed to direct the extra help that was available to heavily assist Ezeudu (or allow his shortcoming to just blow up plays)

The team will likely move Eluemunor to LT and then play either Neal or Hubbard (I would go, Hubbard, unless Neal has been impressive behind the scenes) at RT.  Elemunor at LT will be a downgrade to Thomas, but he will need less help than Ezeudu, which should help the rest of the line somewhat. 
 

Good morning, Rich @MightyGiants .

I appreciate your statement and agree with your assessment. I also understand that the defense fought hard but inevitably wore down from being on the field too long. For the first quarter and a half, they came to play and the defense was inspiring. When the secondary has to deal with two Pro Bowl level receivers, and the line has to deal with a Barkley, it becomes a pick your poison after a while and, inevitably, they get hit with a big play. Then, another. Then, another, and it's game over since the offense cannot compete. Hence, my utter frustration; hopefully you understand where I'm coming from.

Bricillo will have no choice but to bring something different next week because every defense will be licking its chops if this is the best the Giants line up with. In essence it's Gordon Gravelle blocking the blind side of Patterson Plank Joe or the Racquetball King from Northwestern (i.e. Randy Dean) all over again.

But no matter, no quarterback on the team would have performed better in that situation. Let's be explicitly clear here. Don't group me in the pro vs. con Daniel Jones camps. I've made my position clear long ago. I like the kid. He's a tough SOB who has earned my respect for getting physically and mentally beat up playing for this team and taking the abuse by the fans. Even though he is not the future for the Giants, I will still pull for him and want only the very best for HIS success both on and off the field. He deserves to go to a different market (e.g. his home state in NC) where he can hit the reset button and, perhaps,  try to resurrect his career in a much different environment without the pressures of the NY media and fans on his case. I think back to that YouTube video of Rich Eisen interviewing Dave Brown, a couple of years ago, and Brown was very classy about his Giants' experience and never let that keep him down as far as moving forward in his career off the field. I hope the same will occur for Jones as well. But, I don't see Jones or any of the QBs on the roster playing for them next season.

Tough game to swallow yesterday.

Peace!

Quote from: todge on October 21, 2024, 12:58:31 PMJones rose to 12th in QBR which is more than enough to win games. But as is usually the case, you can get good QB play and still not win. If the Giants had a kicker and if Nabers doesn't drop a perfect pass, the Giants win that game.

It's a fine line between winning and losing in this league. I'm not defending Jones - just pointing out that this is a team game. The other 21 players and the coaching staff all impact Ws and Ls.

Now we have a horrific offensive line situation where it doesn't matter who the QB is. Just harken back to our Super Bowl wins. Many will tell you that our pass rush was primarily responsible for the victories. Those QBs were under mild pressure and didn't win. Jones was subjected to 8 sacks, 10 hits, 10 hurries and just couldn't do his job. What many forget is that once a QB doesn't trust his protection, his internal clock speeds up anticipating pressure. This leads to focusing on his primary receiver only and not going through his progressions.

As evidenced by the 2022 road playoff victory, Jones has proven you can win with him. But without a supporting cast and a coaching staff doing their job, you can't win. Yet many still believe, change the QB and all will be well.

As George Young said: "show me a struggling team and I'll show you a team with a struggling offensive line".


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Giants are struggling, and the OL has been fine. As someone pointed out in a different topic, the Giants OL didnt grade much worse than normal, and DJ is responsible for a couple of the sacks.

So it would appear the thought process from back in the day, isn't exactly accurate in modern times.

Quote from: Trench on October 20, 2024, 10:54:22 PMTomlin is 4-2 and changes QBs.

What a difference he is compared to what we have - on so many levels.

Is it possible that part of it is that he has better options than Daboll does?  The Steelers have a far better organization than the Giants do and have had for a long time.

Quote from: kartanoman on October 21, 2024, 12:23:18 PMAfter yesterday's complete dismantling, NO quarterback on the Giants' roster has a chance in hell when it comes to competing against their NFC East rivals. That grade is in and they've failed.

My opinion: NONE of these quarterbacks will be on the roster next season.

As for Tommy "Chicken Cutlets," I enjoyed his 15 minutes of fame, including his cult following off the field, but that's over now and it's time to move on. If it came down to a vote here, as to whether or not he should play, by all means, send him in, but is it going to make a difference? That I just do not have any confidence in.

What scares me most is that one player, even though it was their best player, on the offensive line goes down, the whole system went down like dominoes. I am disturbed by that.

Something broke yesterday and the season went with it beyond a shadow of a doubt. If you wish to argue the QB, that's fine. If you want to say the secondary, that's fine. Point to whatever you'd like, and you'll be right. Take it all the way up to the top of the chain of command, and you won't be wrong. It's broken beyond repair and there's only one thing left to do:

- Ticket burning ceremonies in the urinals
- Planes flying over the stadium with messages to John Mara from angry Giants fans
- Stop attending the games at home
- Turn the TV off
- Tell John we're turning our back on his product until he backs off and hires the best Pro Football independent assessment team to recommend how to tear down his football operation, how to rebuild it into a perennial winner/contender and provide recommendations on personnel who are capable of doing it and what they need from an owner so they can do their job as well as possible and then the owner backs away and stays out of it.

OK - maybe more than just one thing left to do!

Peace!

It's funny, the Maras and Rooneys have such close personal ties, but since John took over they have been at the opposite points of quality of their respective franchises.

Quote from: MrGap92 on October 21, 2024, 01:03:44 PMGiants are struggling, and the OL has been fine. As someone pointed out in a different topic, the Giants OL didnt grade much worse than normal, and DJ is responsible for a couple of the sacks.

So it would appear the thought process from back in the day, isn't exactly accurate in modern times.

The offensive line has been fine? 7 sacks, 10 hits, 10 hurries and no holes for the RBs? Wow.


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