Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: kingm56 on October 21, 2024, 01:46:00 PMHow do you know DJs WRs think he's the team's best QB?  Nabers' comments suggest otherwise. The better question, how can Daboll look his #30 ranked offense in the eyes and expect them to play hard without making a fundamental change?

I appreciate you are no fan of Daniel Jones, but I don't think you can find a fairminded person who is knowledgeable of the situation that suggests Lock is better than Jones.  It certainly hasn't been shown in yesterday's game, nor in training camp.

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 21, 2024, 01:38:22 PMActually, it's worse.  How would Daboll be able to look his players in the eyes and tell them to give their all when the players could plainly see Daboll isn't even playing his best QB?

I agree. I know there's the whole injury clause thing but I think it will send a terrible message to the players if they bench a healthy Jones, whether he's playing like crap or not. Simply because the players know that Lock is not a better QB and definitely doesn't give them a better chance to win.

Players don't care about tanking. They want to play and win.

Quote from: T200 on October 21, 2024, 02:00:43 PMI agree. I know there's the whole injury clause thing but I think it will send a terrible message to the players if they bench a healthy Jones, whether he's playing like crap or not. Simply because the players know that Lock is not a better QB and definitely doesn't give them a better chance to win.

Players don't care about tanking. They want to play and win.

While fans, coaches and NFL front offices see the draft as a way to add talent to the team, players see it as a way for the team to replace them.

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 21, 2024, 01:48:11 PMI appreciate you are no fan of Daniel Jones, but I don't think you can find a fairminded person who is knowledgeable of the situation that suggests Lock is better than Jones.  It certainly hasn't been shown in yesterday's game, nor in training camp.

And I appreciate you thought/predicted DJ was a franchise/top tier QB. However, you're conflating pundit opinions with the players' reality. To that point, WRs know they're getting opened and DJ is failing to throw them the ball. They know they're currently ranked 30th in scoring.  They know they're not getting the opportunity to score TDs with DJ, which is crucial to to their future contracts. They know they're a bottom 3 offense/team with DJ starting.  I suspect they're more amenable to change than you realize. At a minimum, they're smart enough to accept the rationale for change.

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 21, 2024, 02:04:20 PMWhile fans, coaches and NFL front offices see the draft as a way to add talent to the team, players see it as a way for the team to replace them.

I've said the same thing when the proposition of tanking comes up. Players just aren't going to do it. At least not any that I'd want on my team.

Quote from: kingm56 on October 21, 2024, 02:06:33 PMAnd I appreciate you thought/predicted DJ was a franchise/top tier QB. However, you're conflating pundit opinions with the players' reality. To that point, WRs know they're getting opened and DJ is failing to throw them the ball. They know they're currently ranked 30th in scoring.  They know they're not getting the opportunity to score TDs with DJ, which is crucial to to their future contracts. They know they're a bottom 3 offense/team with DJ starting.  I suspect they're more amenable to change than you realize. At a minimum, they're smart enough to accept the rationale for change.

You are certainly entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts (especially when they could be considered slander).  I never predicted, or thought DJ was a franchise/top-tier QB.   First, your claim flies in the face of the FACT that I have made it pretty clear that predictions are BS.  I believed that it was possible for DJ COULD become a franchise quarterback.  He certainly has the arm, the work ethic, and the physical ability.  We will never know if DJ's failure to achieve was the result of the Giant's piss-poor development (and the beating they allowed him to endure) or that he never had the ability to handle the speed and pressure of the NFL game.

Now, regarding your claims about the team believing that Lock is better, feel free to provide some sort of evidence to support that claim. Your beliefs notwithstanding, there has been no factual evidence to support your assertion that the players believe Lock is the better QB.  Certainly, Brian Daboll (who knows a bit more about Jones and football than you do) doesn't believe Lock is better (or, at this point, he would continue to play Lock).

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 21, 2024, 01:38:22 PMActually, it's worse.  How would Daboll be able to look his players in the eyes and tell them to give their all when the players could plainly see Daboll isn't even playing his best QB?

I really find your turnaround interesting here.  Last year I was NOT a proponent of tanking (I still think I'm not...but it's fuzzier this year).  I just think it's such a terribly negative culture move if the team is committed to keeping the same coaching staff.  Yet you openly and frequently wanted them to jettison their best players for draft capital and tank the rest of the way so they could draft a QB.  And now....just the opposite?  I mean- how could Daboll/Schoen look their team in the eyes and tell them to give their all LAST YEAR if they had held the fire sale like you wanted? 

Quote from: PSUBeirut on October 21, 2024, 02:30:10 PMI really find your turnaround interesting here.  Last year I was NOT a proponent of tanking (I still think I'm not...but it's fuzzier this year).  I just think it's such a terribly negative culture move if the team is committed to keeping the same coaching staff.  Yet you openly and frequently wanted them to jettison their best players for draft capital and tank the rest of the way so they could draft a QB.  And now....just the opposite?  I mean- how could Daboll/Schoen look their team in the eyes and tell them to give their all LAST YEAR if they had held the fire sale like you wanted? 

If you don't see the difference between trading away players who are not in the team's future (to acquire more draft picks) and benching better players to play lesser players, I don't think you will ever be able to appreciate my point of view.

Steelers benched the starting QB with a 4-2 record. Jones has recievers open all over the place (Malik said it yesterday and we see it on film replays). Devito had a few wins last year and brings energy. He did what Jones couldn't do and hasn't done in a long time - win a game or two in a row.

Jones is owed absolutely nothing. Nothing whatsoever. He had his chances and he blew it. Steelers showed how it's done as a staff - just pull the trigger. Simple as that. Players will play regardless. Especially when the QB has some energy and positivity

Quote from: Trench on October 21, 2024, 02:32:43 PMSteelers benched the starting QB with a 4-2 record. Jones has recievers open all over the place (Malik said it yesterday and we see it on film replays). Devito had a few wins last year and brings energy. He did what Jones couldn't do and hasn't done in a long time - win a game or two in a row.

Jones is owed absolutely nothing. Nothing whatsoever. He had his chances and he blew it. Steelers showed how it's done as a staff - just pull the trigger. Simple as that. Players will play regardless. Especially when the QB has some energy and positivity

Are you comparing Russel Wilson, a 9X Pro Bowler, a one-time second-team all-pro, and a Super Bowl Champion, with Tommy Devito?

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 21, 2024, 02:32:23 PMIf you don't see the difference between trading away players who are not in the team's future (to acquire more draft picks) and benching better players to play lesser players, I don't think you will ever be able to appreciate my point of view.

Either way, it's openly tanking the season and not making any bones about it.  In BOTH instances, the coach and the GM has to ask the team to play their hardest when they themselves have put them in a position to lose (and...on purpose).  You don't see the similarities here?  I'd love to hear why you think those conversations/messages to the rest of the team would be appreciably different. 

Would you be in favor of the Giants putting DJ on the trading block, to acquire more draft choices and ensure we land a high draft pick?

Steelers put in their starting QB after he fully recovered from a preseason injury. 

Quote from: PSUBeirut on October 21, 2024, 02:38:34 PMEither way, it's openly tanking the season and not making any bones about it.  In BOTH instances, the coach and the GM has to ask the team to play their hardest when they themselves have put them in a position to lose (and...on purpose).  You don't see the similarities here?  I'd love to hear why you think those conversations/messages to the rest of the team would be appreciably different. 

Would you be in favor of the Giants putting DJ on the trading block, to acquire more draft choices and ensure we land a high draft pick?

I would take a 2027 7th if someone took DJ and his entire contract, that would be a monster win

Quote from: PSUBeirut on October 21, 2024, 02:38:34 PMEither way, it's openly tanking the season and not making any bones about it.  In BOTH instances, the coach and the GM has to ask the team to play their hardest when they themselves have put them in a position to lose (and...on purpose).  You don't see the similarities here?  I'd love to hear why you think those conversations/messages to the rest of the team would be appreciably different. 

Would you be in favor of the Giants putting DJ on the trading block, to acquire more draft choices and ensure we land a high draft pick?

If a team would offer the Giants a day 2 pick for DJ, I would be all for making the trade.  I am not sure it would make much difference to trade him away for a day 3 pick and I think at that point you are just benching him in a different fashion.

Quote from: MrGap92 on October 21, 2024, 02:40:13 PMI would take a 2027 7th if someone took DJ and his entire contract, that would be a monster win

If you could find a team that was willing to take on $18 million of DJ's 2024 salary (that would be the pro-rated portion at this point), I would be good with that as well.   I would assume the only was the Giants could get a meaningful day 2 pick would be to eat much of DJ's 2024 contract.

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 21, 2024, 02:36:37 PMAre you comparing Russel Wilson, a 9X Pro Bowler, a one-time second-team all-pro, and a Super Bowl Champion, with Tommy Devito?

Nope. Not at all. But to your point on a different subject, some here wanted Wilson before we signed jones to an extension.

I am referring to a staff having the courage to make a change. I'm not talking Lock because the ONLY reason he would play is for either Daboll or a Schoen to justify their push to sign the guy - because it's apparent he really stinks.

But to Devito, what I saw last year from him was markedly better than what I see this year and the last 5 years from Jones and his 1-18 or so record in prime time and his inability to throw a TD pass at home.