Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 22, 2024, 10:16:51 AMTim,

Maybe I did come on too strong in response to your initial disagreement.  I am depressed over the state of the team and its future prospects, so I am not in the best of moods discussing this team. I will confess that I am still a bit defensive after a poster yesterday tried to put me down by misrepresenting my views on DJ over the years so that he could try and paint himself as better than me.  It's not ideal when I have to defend myself instead of my views on the team, but attacking me seems to be the go-to move for a handful of posters, and that reality makes me a bit too defensive.

Still, no reason not to try and give people the benefit of the doubt.  In the end, you see Jones as always being a bad QB (which is a bit odd because I remember you once telling me you were a former Jones supporter), and I see Jones as a QB who had potential but has lost all confidence on the field thanks to team mismanagement in 2023.  We could debate the issue, but I doubt we will agree.

Thanks Rich. I really appreciate that post. 

My issue with our discussions has been the misrepresentation. I know why you feel the way you feel and I accept that. I only offer a different perspective for discussion purposes only, not to change yours or anyone else's mind.

As long as Jones wears Giants blue, I will root for him. But I can also want a new QB. I don't dislike Daniel and I had hope for him elevating his game and this team coming into the season. I understood he was coming off of his injury and needed time to get back up to speed and get used to his new offensive line. I've said that in many previous posts. He's a great guy by all accounts. But after a month of games with the upgraded support pillars you talked about, it's even more apparent to many of us that he's just not the QB we need to be consistently competitive.

Quote from: Giantleap56 on October 22, 2024, 10:02:44 AMThere are no franchise QBs in this class that screams playoffs or championships. Taking a QB in this draft in the first round is a massive crap shoot. Will look to draft a QB in the second third round. Draft the best available player in the first rounds. Go into next season with Lock and DeVito. Lose as many games as possible and draft your franchise QB in 2026.

Just because they dont scream, or the media doesnt push a certain narrative, doesnt mean none of these guys will be good. Any draft is a crapshoot, not htis one specifically.

Quote from: T200 on October 22, 2024, 10:24:52 AMThanks Rich. I really appreciate that post. 

My issue with our discussions has been the misrepresentation. I know why you feel the way you feel and I accept that. I only offer a different perspective for discussion purposes only, not to change yours or anyone else's mind.

As long as Jones wears Giants blue, I will root for him. But I can also want a new QB. I don't dislike Daniel and I had hope for him elevating his game and this team coming into the season. I understood he was coming off of his injury and needed time to get back up to speed and get used to his new offensive line. I've said that in many previous posts. He's a great guy by all accounts. But after a month of games with the upgraded support pillars you talked about, it's even more apparent to many of us that he's just not the QB we need to be consistently competitive.

Tim,

I had my concerns about DJ regaining his confidence.  DJ lost it once during the dark days known as the Joe Judge years.  He seemed to regain that confidence by the end of 2022, and things were looking up.  DJ looked impressive in the 2023 training camp and his one PS series.  Things were looking up, and then AT got hurt, the entire O-line collapsed, and DJ got two major injuries.

Regaining self-confidence after it is lost is hard enough to do once.  Regaining it twice, especially when you throw in two major injuries, is twice as hard.  So I was concerned more about how things were between DJ's ears than I was about his ACL, his rust, or even his neck issues (which are still concerns)

For me, what makes this an even crappier situation is that by every indication, DJ is a really good man.  The man worked harder than anyone and said and did everything the right way.  In terms of deserving success, there are few I would say deserved it more than DJ.  Yet, I can't recall a player who was more badly treated not just by his fans and punditry but by his fellow NFL players.  I appreciate that at least DJ has made enough money to set himself up for life, but I can think of few good people who have been more mistreated (in light of how he lived his life) than Daniel Jones, at least in the football world.

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 22, 2024, 10:34:28 AMTim,

For me, what makes this an even crappier situation is that by every indication, DJ is a really good man.  The man worked harder than anyone and said and did everything the right way.  In terms of deserving success, there are few I would say deserved it more than DJ.  Yet, I can't recall a player who was more badly treated not just by his fans and punditry but by his fellow NFL players.  I appreciate that at least DJ has made enough money to set himself up for life, but I can think of few good people who have been more mistreated (in light of how he lived his life) than Daniel Jones, at least in the football world.

Rich,

Being a good person doesn't equate to being a good player. One has nothing to do with the other.

Jones has been talked about because of his lack of performance for being picked at #6 overall. No, he didn't choose to be picked there but he needs to do everything he can to justify that pick. And he hasn't.

Many other high draft picks who didn't live up to their pick status get talked about just as much. It comes with the territory. I don't see that Jones endured any more criticism than any other player that was picked high and didn't work out.

Quote from: MrGap92 on October 22, 2024, 10:30:36 AMJust because they dont scream, or the media doesnt push a certain narrative, doesnt mean none of these guys will be good. Any draft is a crapshoot, not htis one specifically.

I really hate that term "crapshoot."  Just because success isn't guaranteed doesn't make it completely random.

I'm fine with the Giants taking a flyer on a guy with upside in 2025 as long as they don't reach. I still think they should take a quarterback in 2026 if they have a high draft pick, which they probably will.

Quote from: T200 on October 22, 2024, 10:42:44 AMRich,

Being a good person doesn't equate to being a good player. One has nothing to do with the other.

Jones has been talked about because of his lack of performance for being picked at #6 overall. No, he didn't choose to be picked there but he needs to do everything he can to justify that pick. And he hasn't.

Many other high draft picks who didn't live up to their pick status get talked about just as much. It comes with the territory. I don't see that Jones endured any more criticism than any other player that was picked high and didn't work out.

Tim,

Sam Darnold was drafted even higher than Jones and played even worse.  Yet Jets fans never went after him with the zeal Giants fans went after Jones.  Nor were players on other teams mocking and insulting Darnold like they were Daniel Jones.

Quote from: TONKA56 on October 22, 2024, 10:43:04 AMI really hate that term "crapshoot."  Just because success isn't guaranteed doesn't make it completely random.

I'm fine with the Giants taking a flyer on a guy with upside in 2025 as long as they don't reach. I still think they should take a quarterback in 2026 if they have a high draft pick, which they probably will.

Reaching is ultimately a non existent term in my opinion. Just because Mel Kiper or whoever else has players ranked a certain way, doesnt mean they should absolutely be drafted in that order.

If they like a guy in this draft, and they have the means to acquire him, get him.

Quote from: TDToomer on October 22, 2024, 09:37:02 AMI too am fine with Nabors over the remaining QBS at #6 but I need to ask a question about sometime you wrote.

If the Broncos are winning in spite of Bo Nix then why aren't we winning in spite of Daniel Jones? I guess having the 3rd ranked defense makes a difference.

We are. That's exactly my point. This board has said that consistently about DJ and would be saying the same as Nix.

I'm not advocating at all for DJ. I'm just saying the options at #6 were no better and that we made the right call in bringing in a truly elite player in Nabers.

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 22, 2024, 10:44:55 AMTim,

Sam Darnold was drafted even higher than Jones and played even worse.  Yet Jets fans never went after him with the zeal Giants fans went after Jones.  Nor were players on other teams mocking and insulting Darnold like they were Daniel Jones.

This is simply not true. Jets fans were unabashedly trashing Darnold early in his career.

Quote from: Stringer Bell on October 22, 2024, 10:50:06 AMThis is simply not true. Jets fans were unabashedly trashing Darnold early in his career.

I am not sure what you are basing your claim on.  I live in the Jets media area and have friends who are Jets fans.  I never saw the trashing Darnold like I witnessed Giants fans bashing Daniel Jones.

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 22, 2024, 10:44:55 AMTim,

Sam Darnold was drafted even higher than Jones and played even worse.  Yet Jets fans never went after him with the zeal Giants fans went after Jones.  Nor were players on other teams mocking and insulting Darnold like they were Daniel Jones.

I know some Jets fans and not a single one of them were happy with Darnold but they celebrated when he was gone.

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 22, 2024, 10:55:52 AMI am not sure what you are basing your claim on.  I live in the Jets media area and have friends who are Jets fans.  I never saw the trashing Darnold like I witnessed Giants fans bashing Daniel Jones.

I live in the Jets media area and have friends who are Jets fans, as well. He was trashed constantly. I'd even say he was trashed worse than Jones.

Quote from: T200 on October 22, 2024, 10:56:25 AMI know some Jets fans and not a single one of them were happy with Darnold but they celebrated when he was gone.

Not being happy with an underperforming QB is normal and to be expected.  I am talking about the special brand of vitriol that so many Giants fans have had or still have for Daniel Jones.  Hell, just look at when each was drafted.  Almost all Jets fans cheered the drafting of Darnold.  Half the Giants fans were booing Daniel Jones before he even took a single NFL snap.

Quote from: MrGap92 on October 22, 2024, 10:30:36 AMJust because they dont scream, or the media doesnt push a certain narrative, doesnt mean none of these guys will be good. Any draft is a crapshoot, not htis one specifically.

That's why you draft the best available player and pick up QB in later rounds and hope that player is good enough to pan out. I don't want to waste number one on a QB that can be picked up in later rounds. If anything this team still needs more receivers and a shut down corner. You can pick up a QB in the third round that will be as good as a QB in the first round.
I want to move on from Slayton and Robinson. Definitely need to shore up the secondary.

Quote from: Giantleap56 on October 22, 2024, 11:08:16 AMThat's why you draft the best available player and pick up QB in later rounds and hope that player is good enough to pan out. I don't want to waste number one on a QB that can be picked up in later rounds. If anything this team still needs more receivers and a shut down corner. You can pick up a QB in the third round that will be as good as a QB in the first round.
I want to move on from Slayton and Robinson. Definitely need to shore up the secondary.

The QB could be the best player available. Again, what order Mel Kiper ranks players or what mock drafts say, means next to nothing in the NFL.

There is no one that can guarantee a 3rd round QB will be just as good as a first rounder