Big Blue Huddle

Since Belichick was fired, I have not been one calling for him to be the head coach.  I considered him too old and how he left the Pats was less than ideal.   Still, Bill knows what it takes to win and how to create a winning culture.

The Giants need to establish a winning culture in their organization.  They need a strong head coach who will do just that.  I am aware of only two proven commodities, Bill Belichick and Mike Vrabel.

I was toying with the idea of Belichick as GM and Vrabel as HC, but that might be a case of too many chefs.   If Schoen was willing (and I assume he would be), I would fire Daboll (not his staff) and hire Bill Belichick.   I would tell him it would be a three-year deal, and part of Bill's assignment would be to prepare a successor.  I would let Bill keep the staff members he liked and replace those he didn't (I think it would be helpful for Bill at this point of his career to be given a boost in terms of having some pretty good position coaches already on the roster.

I appreciate that hiring Belichick will not solve the issue of needing a franchise QB.  Still, failing an easy answer at franchise QB, the best thing a team can do (in my opinion) is keep building a quality winning team until an opportunity to acquire a proper QB presents itself.

This would be an awful move, in my opinon. He has very little in the tank, and in a couple years we will be back to the drawing board. Most of his assistants tend to flop as HC, so I am unsure I like the idea of him having a successor either and we end up with the next Joe Judge or Bill O'Brien.

He didn't do a lot pre Brady, and didn't do a lot post Brady, he wasn't terrible, but at the same time, they didn't really have a winning culture after he left for Tampa either.

Although, you can view Belichick with Brady, as the opposite of Daboll with Jones, he was able to win with a great QB, but then the Pats were horrible with bad QBs.  I am not comparing Daboll to BB, by any means, but making a point that a bad QB can sink any operation. Daboll should get a chance with a QB of his choice, and be given 2 years with them before making any rash decisions.

If they do move on from Daboll this year, while I disagree with it, BB offers nothing in my opinion to the Giants. They need to move forward, not lean on the past again. Idk what the coach pool is for 2025, but I rather them pull from there if they do go a new direction. Maybe this time actually branch away from the BB Tree altogether.

The Giants wanting to hire an old coach like BB is a good question to discuss.  But, why he would be receptive, in my opinion, is not.  I've read in multiple places that his motivation for wanting to coach at his age is passing Shula as the all time winning coach.  He had far better chances of doing that with several clubs likely to need a HC including 2 in our division

I can't think of anything more regressive. This franchise needs to be looking to the future, not it's past. It messed that up bringing in Accorsi to rubber-stamp Gettleman's hiring which set this franchise back a decade.

If anything, they need to stop simply trying to copy effective franchises--going after both the Bills' assistant GM and offensive coordinator reeks of chasing what is hot. I'm not saying I didn't like the hirings, or that they weren't qualified for the positions (can't recall but I imagine I was at least enthusiastic about both)--I just think Mara is generally lost and that hiring cycle didn't dispel that notion for me.

If Daboll is gone--and I'm not convinced he should be, but can entertain the argument--then do a comprehensive search. Include Bill in it. But certainly do not do a sham hiring process designed to make him the best candidate, because I would be hard-pressed to believe he offers a forward-looking vision that will sustain winning for years. He certainly couldn't do that in New England after Brady left (and the roster was barren due to his mismanagement well before that).

Quote from: MrGap92 on October 22, 2024, 11:24:08 AMThis would be an awful move, he has very little in the tank, in a couple years we will be back to the drawing board.

He didn't do a lot pre Brady, and didn't do a lot post Brady, he wasn't terrible but they didn't really have a winning culture after he left for Tampa.

Most of his assistants tend to flop as HC, so I am unsure I like the idea of him having a successor either.

Although, you can view Belichick with Brady, as the opposite of Daboll with Jones, he was able to win with a great QB, but then the Pats were horrible with bad QBs.

I am not comparing Daboll to BB, but a bad QB can sink any operation. Daboll should get a chance with a QB of his choice, and be given 2 years with them before making any rash decisions.

If they do move on from Daboll, BB offers nothing in my opinion to the Giants. They need to move forward, not lean on the past again. Idk what the coach pool is for 2025, but I rather them pull from there if they do go a new direction.

I can't say you're wrong in terms of Bill not having anything left in the tank.  On the other side, I think you give far too much credit to Tom Brady.  Yes, Tom had success when he left Belichick, but I am very mindful he went to a very talented Bucs team and was coached by a highly talented (and in my opinion, under-appreciated) Bruce Arians.

My thoughts in terms of Bill's late career performance is that Belichick's talent acquisition and coaching staff hires failed him more than his abilities to create culture and call football games.  Even Mac Joneshe coached up a rookie playoff appearance as well as a Pro-Bowl birth before he collapsed under the coaching of Matt Patricia and Joe Judge (can't defend Bill's choices here).

If you don't want Bill Belichick what are your thoughts on Mike Vrabel?

I am as a big fan of BB as anyone but I don't think a 70+ year old HC is the best way forward for this team.  What we heard with Bill leaving is his ability to relate to players is not what it once was. 

I disagree with the entire idea that "he did nothing without Brady"  His defense dragged Brady to their first Super Bowl.  Brady and the offense scored 3 offensive TDs in the playoffs that year in 3 games, but I am to believe it was only because Brady they won? but thats really off topic.

I would think of hiring him as a consultant in a GM search or HC search, but the idea of him as HC is not one that I think should be pursued.  As others have mentioned his personnel decisions in NE hurt the team and I doubt at this point he wouldn't want to have a lot of roster control and draft control.

Quote from: MrGap92 on October 22, 2024, 11:24:08 AMThis would be an awful move, he has very little in the tank, in a couple years we will be back to the drawing board.

He didn't do a lot pre Brady, and didn't do a lot post Brady, he wasn't terrible but they didn't really have a winning culture after he left for Tampa.

Most of his assistants tend to flop as HC, so I am unsure I like the idea of him having a successor either.

Although, you can view Belichick with Brady, as the opposite of Daboll with Jones, he was able to win with a great QB, but then the Pats were horrible with bad QBs.

I am not comparing Daboll to BB, but a bad QB can sink any operation. Daboll should get a chance with a QB of his choice, and be given 2 years with them before making any rash decisions.

If they do move on from Daboll, BB offers nothing in my opinion to the Giants. They need to move forward, not lean on the past again. Idk what the coach pool is for 2025, but I rather them pull from there if they do go a new direction.

I can't say you're wrong in terms of Bill not having anything left in the tank.  On the other side, I think you give far too much credit to Tom Brady.  Yes, Tom had success when he left Belichick, but I am very mindful he went to a very talented Bucs team and was coached by a highly talented (and in my opinion, under-appreciated) Bruce Arians.

My thoughts in terms of Bill's late career performance is that Belichick's talent acquisition and coaching staff hires failed him more than his abilities to create culture and call football games.  Even Mac Joneshe coached up a rookie playoff appearance as well as a Pro-Bowl birth before he collapsed under the coaching of Matt Patricia and Joe Judge (can't defend Bill's choices here).

If you don't want Bill Belichick what are your thoughts on Mike Vrabel?

Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on October 22, 2024, 11:32:05 AMI can't think of anything more regressive. This franchise needs to be looking to the future, not it's past. It messed that up bringing in Accorsi to rubber-stamp Gettleman's hiring which set this franchise back a decade.

If anything, they need to stop simply trying to copy effective franchises--going after both the Bills' assistant GM and offensive coordinator reeks of chasing what is hot. I'm not saying I didn't like the hirings, or that they weren't qualified for the positions (can't recall but I imagine I was at least enthusiastic about both)--I just think Mara is generally lost and that hiring cycle didn't dispel that notion for me.

If Daboll is gone--and I'm not convinced he should be, but can entertain the argument--then do a comprehensive search. Include Bill in it. But certainly do not do a sham hiring process designed to make him the best candidate, because I would be hard-pressed to believe he offers a forward-looking vision that will sustain winning for years. He certainly couldn't do that in New England after Brady left (and the roster was barren due to his mismanagement well before that).

So you are against hiring Belichick to fix the culture problems.  You are against "trying to copy another team" which is how you characterize the Schoen and Daboll hiring.   So, what do you advocate?   Hire some hot coordinator?   Who do you see as the answer that will be strong enough and effective enough to fix a franchise that has been spinning its wheels for over a decade?

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 22, 2024, 11:42:45 AMSo you are against hiring Belichick to fix the culture problems.  You are against "trying to copy another team" which is how you characterize the Schoen and Daboll hiring.  So, what do you advocate?  Hire some hot coordinator?  Who do you see as the answer that will be strong enough and effective enough to fix a franchise that has been spinning its wheels for over a decade?

Do you believe Belichik is the only person capable of fixing culture problems? I don't think that to be the case. I also think culture is largely a byproduct of winning football games--win a bunch and magically people start buying into culture or you have "good" culture. Lose a bunch and the "culture" is lacking. It's an inherently amorphous thing to me, which is not to say its non-existent or unimportant, but trying to address it directly seems backwards.

I don't know who will be available this offseason to form an opinion as to who I think my top choice would be. I prefer offensive-minded candidates generally speaking, since offense drives the modern-day NFL, and I would like someone on the younger side with the idea that they are here for a long time. None of those general preferences are set in stone and instead bend to who is available.

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 22, 2024, 11:39:46 AMI can't say you're wrong in terms of Bill not having anything left in the tank.  On the other side, I think you give far too much credit to Tom Brady.  Yes, Tom had success when he left Belichick, but I am very mindful he went to a very talented Bucs team and was coached by a highly talented (and in my opinion, under-appreciated) Bruce Arians.

My thoughts in terms of Bill's late career performance is that Belichick's talent acquisition and coaching staff hires failed him more than his abilities to create culture and call football games.  Even Mac Joneshe coached up a rookie playoff appearance as well as a Pro-Bowl birth before he collapsed under the coaching of Matt Patricia and Joe Judge (can't defend Bill's choices here).

If you don't want Bill Belichick what are your thoughts on Mike Vrabel?

I would be much more OK with Vrabel than Belichick. But I would avoid the BB Tree entirely at this point if they move on from Daboll. Vrabel is probably one of the better HCs to come from the Belichick tree, I will give him that acknowledgement. He was saddled with average QBs in Tannehill and Mariota, who to me are in the same level of DJ, if not slightly above.

As for Brady, I respect the insight, but I do disagree, that Bucs team was 7-9 the year prior, with Jameis Winston at QB, another average at best QB who had Arians there as well. Arians is underrated, but he was only able to do so much with Winston. They got Brady and immediately won the Super Bowl. With that said, Brady is the GOAT, so its a unique an probably extreme example of it.  But you can be the most brilliant mind, if your QB room isnt good, your team likely isnt because of it.

If we are in the HC market, I hope we aren't, but if we are I haven't looked into candidates, so can't say I like any specifically at the moment. But I hope they nail the QB selection no matter who is coaching this team in 2025, I hope it is Daboll, but whether him, Belichick, or whoever else they really need to find the right QB. You just do not win much with the Jones, Winstons, or Mariotas of the world.



IF we hire a new coach. I would go the Adam Peters approach. Not focus on connections or ties, do a genuine, thorough interview process, leave no stone unturned, and pick who is genuinely the best candidate. I may be wrong but not sure Peters and Quinn have any history?

Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on October 22, 2024, 11:51:51 AMDo you believe Belichik is the only person capable of fixing culture problems? I don't think that to be the case. I also think culture is largely a byproduct of winning football games--win a bunch and magically people start buying into culture or you have "good" culture. Lose a bunch and the "culture" is lacking. It's an inherently amorphous thing to me, which is not to say its non-existent or unimportant, but trying to address it directly seems backwards.

I don't know who will be available this offseason to form an opinion as to who I think my top choice would be. I prefer offensive-minded candidates generally speaking, since offense drives the modern-day NFL, and I would like someone on the younger side with the idea that they are here for a long time. None of those general preferences are set in stone and instead bend to who is available.

A younger offensive coach:  Like

Ben McAdoo
Pat Shurmur
Brian Daboll
Joe Judge (technically more of a ST coach, but he was the Pat's WR coach his last year)

I don't see a reason to believe the 4th time will be the charm.

The last time the Giants enjoyed success was when they had a strong, tough-minded head coach, Tom Coughlin, who set the right culture for this team.  Is Bill Belichick the only one that could set the culture?  Probably not, but outside of Mike Vabrel, I don't know another HC with the status and ability to undertake the sort of massive effort needed to fix this clearly broken team.

I would be very happy to have BB as our next coach.

He has motivation as he desperately wants to be the winningest coach in the history of the NFL> BUT, besides that he brings credibility with him. Players know what he can bring and I would guarantee there would be no taking plays off under his watch. Like Coughlin, he brings a bit of 'old school' thinking. We have a decent enough defense now and under BB's thinking, we could be better.
Sure ne needs the main piece and that is a QB, but he would bebeing a much needed lift of respect if you want to call it that, to a team in need of it.

Quote from: MrGap92 on October 22, 2024, 11:53:08 AMI would be much more OK with Vrabel than Belichick. But I would avoid the BB Tree entirely at this point if they move on from Daboll. Vrabel is probably one of the better HCs to come from the Belichick tree, I will give him that acknowledgement. He was saddled with average QBs in Tannehill and Mariota, who to me are in the same level of DJ, if not slightly above.

As for Brady, I respect the insight, but I do disagree, that Bucs team was 7-9 the year prior, with Jameis Winston at QB, another average at best QB who had Arians there as well. Arians is underrated, but he was only able to do so much with Winston. They got Brady and immediately won the Super Bowl. With that said, Brady is the GOAT, so its a unique an probably extreme example of it.  But you can be the most brilliant mind, if your QB room isnt good, your team likely isnt because of it.

If we are in the HC market, I hope we aren't, but if we are I haven't looked into candidates, so can't say I like any specifically at the moment. But I hope they nail the QB selection no matter who is coaching this team in 2025, I hope it is Daboll, but whether him, Belichick, or whoever else they really need to find the right QB. You just do not win much with the Jones, Winstons, or Mariotas of the world.



IF we hire a new coach. I would go the Adam Peters approach. Not focus on connections or ties, do a genuine, thorough interview process, leave no stone unturned, and pick who is genuinely the best candidate. I may be wrong but not sure Peters and Quinn have any history?

Who do you think taught former 6th-round pick Tom Brady how to become a winning quarterback and what a winning team looked like?  Tom shared with the Bucs what he learned from Bill Belichick, which certainly helped the Bucs and Bruce Arians.

To your suggestion that the Giants just need to do proper interviews and hire the best candidate, I would answer that those interviews will be conducted by the same failed organization and culture who have swung and missed on every coaching hire since Tom Coughlin left.

A guy I've wanted the Giants to interview for years is Greg Roman.

Quote from: TONKA56 on October 22, 2024, 12:24:54 PMA guy I've wanted the Giants to interview for years is Greg Roman.

What do you see in Greg that makes you believe he would be a good head coach?