Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: todge on October 22, 2024, 03:34:35 PMMilton  - cannon for an arm but very inaccurate

Ward - let's keep in mind he entered the 2023 conditional Draft and received a 75-150 grade which is 3rd Round. He enrolled at Miami to improve his Draft stock and it worked. But the fact that he tried to enter the Draft and was ranked significantly lower than any of the years top ranked QB is a red flag to me.

I'm with you Rich when it comes to Jones. I think a lot of people believe the Giants are a QB away and I couldn't disagree more. Jones rose to 12th in QBR despite a huge amount of drops; his coach stated he was "  locked in" and the Giants were still 1 and 3. As you know, the other 21 guys and the coaching staff also  impact Ws and Ls.


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Ted - dont you think player prospects develop in college from year to year and thus change their draft rankings?   

Quote from: Philosophers on October 22, 2024, 04:11:05 PMTed - dont you think player prospects develop in college from year to year and thus change their draft rankings?

Absolutely. But I still can't shake the thought that Ward received a 3rd Round grade last year.


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Plenty of players get graded lower, stay a year or transfer, and fly way up the boards, at all positions. This happens often. 

There is way too much being made of this

Quote from: todge on October 22, 2024, 05:01:22 PMAbsolutely. But I still can't shake the thought that Ward received a 3rd Round grade last year.


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In the Spring of 2023, JJ McCarthy received a 3rd round grade.  In the Fall of 2023 he went on the NC run then went top 10.  Ward may have a similar trajectory. Check out Ward's throwing motion and see if you see something funky in his delivery that I see.

Quote from: Philosophers on October 22, 2024, 05:10:45 PMIn the Spring of 2023, JJ McCarthy received a 3rd round grade.  In the Fall of 2023 he went on the NC run then went top 10.  Ward may have a similar trajectory. Check out Ward's throwing motion and see if you see something funky in his delivery that I see.

Exactly, with more experience and development, comes better play and higher draft status (or sometimes the other way around).

I think Cam Ward is a 1st round talent, and believe more will think so as the season wraps up. Not neccessarily connecting him to NYG, just in general. Though I do like him as a pick if I am playing armchair GM.

I just think anyone calling this QB class not good is just silly, since every year its the same song and dance.

Quote from: MrGap92 on October 22, 2024, 05:13:22 PMExactly, with more experience and development, comes better play and higher draft status (or sometimes the other way around).

I think Cam Ward is a 1st round talent, and believe more will think so as the season wraps up. Not neccessarily connecting him to NYG, just in general. Though I do like him as a pick if I am playing armchair GM.

I just think anyone calling this QB class not good is just silly, since every year its the same song and dance.

There is no Caleb Williams or Jayden Daniels in this class.  From that perspective it's not as good as last year.  But Beck/Ward/Milroe plus Sanders who the Giants were visiting with at Colorado just this week, all are talented.  And if you are of the opinion as as I am that: 

1). Daboll's WRs are getting open and Jones isn't throwing it to them
2) A rookie would provide an upgrade to anybody currently on the roster
3) the rest of the team is basically ready to compete

Then taking one of these guys is almost certain to happen.  I don't see the Giants winning too many more games regardless of who plays QB.  In fact at this point Devito might be the one most likely to stumble accidentally into a win here and there.  So I do think they'll end up in the top 3.  And I do think that if that happens they are taking the best QB available.  If they are picking in the middle of the round then perhaps things change but at this point that seems highly unlikely.

Quote from: Gmo11 on October 23, 2024, 09:22:10 AMThere is no Caleb Williams or Jayden Daniels in this class.  From that perspective it's not as good as last year.  But Beck/Ward/Milroe plus Sanders who the Giants were visiting with at Colorado just this week, all are talented.  And if you are of the opinion as as I am that: 

1). Daboll's WRs are getting open and Jones isn't throwing it to them
2) A rookie would provide an upgrade to anybody currently on the roster
3) the rest of the team is basically ready to compete

Then taking one of these guys is almost certain to happen.  I don't see the Giants winning too many more games regardless of who plays QB.  In fact at this point Devito might be the one most likely to stumble accidentally into a win here and there.  So I do think they'll end up in the top 3.  And I do think that if that happens they are taking the best QB available.  If they are picking in the middle of the round then perhaps things change but at this point that seems highly unlikely.

If only. No the Giants will win just enough meaningless games to lose out on the prospects they really want. Count on it.

Quote from: Gmo11 on October 23, 2024, 09:22:10 AMThere is no Caleb Williams or Jayden Daniels in this class. From that perspective it's not as good as last year.  But Beck/Ward/Milroe plus Sanders who the Giants were visiting with at Colorado just this week, all are talented.  And if you are of the opinion as as I am that: 

1). Daboll's WRs are getting open and Jones isn't throwing it to them
2) A rookie would provide an upgrade to anybody currently on the roster
3) the rest of the team is basically ready to compete

Then taking one of these guys is almost certain to happen.  I don't see the Giants winning too many more games regardless of who plays QB.  In fact at this point Devito might be the one most likely to stumble accidentally into a win here and there.  So I do think they'll end up in the top 3.  And I do think that if that happens they are taking the best QB available.  If they are picking in the middle of the round then perhaps things change but at this point that seems highly unlikely.

No one knows this, whether right or wrong, no ones knows this. It's silly armchair GMing, just because ESPN, Mel Kiper, mock drafts etc say it, others repeat it. (not saying this about you directly in anyway, just generalizing as I have seen this alot both here and elsewhere)

If any of that were accurate, or had any truth to it. Bryce Young would be a superstar, Mitch Trubisky would be the best QB in the league, and Trevor Lawrence, you know, the generational prospect?, would have the Jags in Super Bowl contention.

Russell Wilson is a shell of himself these days, but when he was a top QB in the league, he was a 3rd round pick, he didnt have a great grade. Lamar Jackson was the 32nd overall pick barely a first rounder, Brock purdy was Mr Irrelevant. Some of the all times greats even weren't first round picks, what about their grades for guys like Brees?

I can continue, but I think I made my point. CFB isnt even over yet. Alot can change.

No one is going to know how good or bad the class is, until they actually show us.


Anyways, I do agree with you on the rest, and share the same opinion on things. 

Even if a Cam Ward or Shedeur Sanders isn't a Jayden Daniels, chances are worth taking its better than what we got.

Unless a miracle happens? Mara is not going to be owner any more?

Daniel Jones will be back here unless a miracle happens and Mara is forced to sell the team or they get a trade up to a top QB prospect (and that is not going to happen just like like last draft).

Seems to me the FO is like a lot of Daniel Jones fans. They really want Jones to stay and eventually get it together ,and make the excuse that there are no good other alternatives.

Unless a miracle happens and a top QB prospect falls into their lap ; then they'll just ride it out with Jones.

Which pretty much means that they want to ride it out with Jones, and finally be proven right.

Quote from: MrGap92 on October 23, 2024, 10:02:46 AMNo one knows this, whether right or wrong, no ones knows this. It's silly armchair GMing, just because ESPN, Mel Kiper, mock drafts etc say it, others repeat it. (not saying this about you directly in anyway, just generalizing as I have seen this alot both here and elsewhere)

If any of that were accurate, or had any truth to it. Bryce Young would be a superstar, Mitch Trubisky would be the best QB in the league, and Trevor Lawrence, you know, the generational prospect?, would have the Jags in Super Bowl contention.

Russell Wilson is a shell of himself these days, but when he was a top QB in the league, he was a 3rd round pick, he didnt have a great grade. Lamar Jackson was the 32nd overall pick barely a first rounder, Brock purdy was Mr Irrelevant. Some of the all times greats even weren't first round picks, what about their grades for guys like Brees?

I can continue, but I think I made my point. CFB isnt even over yet. Alot can change.

No one is going to know how good or bad the class is, until they actually show us.


Anyways, I do agree with you on the rest, and share the same opinion on things. 

Even if a Cam Ward or Shedeur Sanders isn't a Jayden Daniels, chances are worth taking its better than what we got.

In my own defense, I don't listen to pundits I do watch the games and do the evaluations and while I've been plenty wrong before (thought Josh Allen was the worst QB of that group for example) I tend to be right a little bit as well (thought Lamar Jackson was the best QB of that group for example). 

At this time last year we knew Caleb Williams was going to be the top pick.  To say that there isn't a Caleb Williams is correct in the sense that while we know the 1st pick will be a QB we don't know which one it will be yet. 

Jayden Daniels while highly touted probably wasn't projected at #2 overall until the season was either over or mostly over.  So fair enough there, we can wait and see if a new Jayden Daniels emerges.  But from what I've seen so far, none of them scream superstar to me the way that Daniels did all of last year.  I'll be thrilled to be proven wrong if the Giants end up with a QB who does, but that's how I see the landscape now.  And I don't need Mel Kiper to tell me that.

The good thing is, at least in my opinion, they don't need Jayden Daniels level play to be a pretty good team.  If they can draft a guy that gets close to that, they'll be really good. And that player will also provide the greatest commodity of all: hope.  That even if he does something stupid from time to time you can still say "it's a learning experience he's going to get better."  Can't say that with Jones and haven't been able to say that for a few years now.  He wasn't very good in college, he wasn't good in the pros, and he's only gotten worse since he arrived minus a flukey 2022 season.

Quote from: Fletch on October 23, 2024, 11:33:20 AMSeems to me the FO is like a lot of Daniel Jones fans. They really want Jones to stay and eventually get it together

I can't image a true fan of the team that didn't want or would still love to see Daniel Jones start playing at franchise level as staying there.  As your commentary clearly implies, you are actively rooting against the team.

Quote from: Gmo11 on October 23, 2024, 12:14:54 PMIn my own defense, I don't listen to pundits I do watch the games and do the evaluations and while I've been plenty wrong before (thought Josh Allen was the worst QB of that group for example) I tend to be right a little bit as well (thought Lamar Jackson was the best QB of that group for example). 

At this time last year we knew Caleb Williams was going to be the top pick.  To say that there isn't a Caleb Williams is correct in the sense that while we know the 1st pick will be a QB we don't know which one it will be yet. 

Jayden Daniels while highly touted probably wasn't projected at #2 overall until the season was either over or mostly over.  So fair enough there, we can wait and see if a new Jayden Daniels emerges.  But from what I've seen so far, none of them scream superstar to me the way that Daniels did all of last year.  I'll be thrilled to be proven wrong if the Giants end up with a QB who does, but that's how I see the landscape now.  And I don't need Mel Kiper to tell me that.

The good thing is, at least in my opinion, they don't need Jayden Daniels level play to be a pretty good team.  If they can draft a guy that gets close to that, they'll be really good. And that player will also provide the greatest commodity of all: hope.  That even if he does something stupid from time to time you can still say "it's a learning experience he's going to get better."  Can't say that with Jones and haven't been able to say that for a few years now.  He wasn't very good in college, he wasn't good in the pros, and he's only gotten worse since he arrived minus a flukey 2022 season.

That is a fair way of wording that, I can understand the perspective from that angle, as no one is unanimously think X person is a shoo in top 2 pick.

I was looking at it more from a "Results" perspective, so that makes sense, and I can agree with that.

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 23, 2024, 12:16:41 PMI can't image a true fan of the team that didn't want or would still love to see Daniel Jones start playing at franchise level as staying there.  As your commentary clearly implies, you are actively rooting against the team.

So am I not a Mets fan because as much as I wanted Daniel Vogelbach to succeed eventually , reason had to draw its own conclusions and, certainly did not want him on the team again for that last playoff run? Even though JD Martinez was almost as bad as him.

Why not hope to pickup and re-sign Carter Conghlin and hope he turns into Lawrence Taylor? Why not unretire Mike Glennon and hope he gets it together on the other side of 30 like Geno Smith?

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 23, 2024, 12:16:41 PMI can't image a true fan of the team that didn't want or would still love to see Daniel Jones start playing at franchise level as staying there.  As your commentary clearly implies, you are actively rooting against the team.

This is accurate.

Despite my opinions on him, if this just happened somehow. I would in fact love to see it.

Would love to be able to use the draft capital elsewhere if it were possible.