Big Blue Huddle

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/41969928/giants-committed-daboll-schoen-2-5-start-mara-says

"Obviously, we're all very disappointed with where we are right now, but I'm going to say one thing: We are not making any changes this season and I do not anticipate making any changes in the offseason either," Mara said after watching the premiere of "The Duke: Wellington Mara's Giant Life" about his father's life and contributions to the game of football."

This is the right call. Hopefully it doesn't change.

Quote from: MrGap92 on October 24, 2024, 08:06:57 AMhttps://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/41969928/giants-committed-daboll-schoen-2-5-start-mara-says

"Obviously, we're all very disappointed with where we are right now, but I'm going to say one thing: We are not making any changes this season and I do not anticipate making any changes in the offseason either," Mara said after watching the premiere of "The Duke: Wellington Mara's Giant Life" about his father's life and contributions to the game of football."

This is the right call. Hopefully it doesn't change.

They have to show signs of progress. They took play calling away from Kafka and we are the same or worse. Daboll needs to decide if hes the OC or the HC, as he isn't really doing either very well. Every week we are outplayed, outcoached, out-classed. That falls on him! Schoen has done just ok, this draft appears to be pretty solid. But if Neal and Thibs dont pan out, that is damning.

I know they dont want to keep recycling regimes, but this one is not working out so far. Yes a better QB probably nets us a few more wins, but the team as a whole is not playing up to their potential. I guess thats what happens when you have a HC who wants to call plays, and a new DC, along with a lot of young talent and a tough division. Hard times.

Quote from: MrGap92 on October 24, 2024, 08:06:57 AMhttps://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/41969928/giants-committed-daboll-schoen-2-5-start-mara-says

"Obviously, we're all very disappointed with where we are right now, but I'm going to say one thing: We are not making any changes this season and I do not anticipate making any changes in the offseason either," Mara said after watching the premiere of "The Duke: Wellington Mara's Giant Life" about his father's life and contributions to the game of football."

This is the right call. Hopefully it doesn't change.

There is a very good chance after 3 years with Schoen and Daboll; they will finish with a worse record than when they took over.  That isn't my definition of progress.

To Mara's comments, I found these interesting as well

Quote"I think I try to be more patient than maybe I've been in recent years," Mara said. "He was patient. He preached that all the time and I've probably been guilty of not being patient enough in recent years, and that's one of the reasons I'm committed to Joe and Brian and giving them a chance to turn this thing around."

QuoteWhat is it about Schoen and Daboll that keeps Mara feeling confident?

"Just the process that they have, being in the meetings with them, talking about where they see us going forward, talking about the evaluation of our personnel," he said. "I still have confidence in both of them."

Seems that Schoen and Daboll are enjoying some benefits of Mara's past regrets.   Yesterday, I was speaking to a friend of mine from Florida.  We are talking about how the Steelers are such a well-run organization with only 3 HCs in their history.   I said that consistency can be a benefit in its own right if you hit on the right people (fewer changes mean players fit the scheme and scouts know exactly what coaches are looking for with players, etc).

Of course, the challenge is knowing you have the right people. I have read five books: three by Tom Coughlin and two by Mike Lombardi (who hasn't performed well in the NFL but learned football from some of the all-time greats). These two men have given me a pretty good idea of how successful teams are run.

That said, what I saw on Hard Knocks is not how I understand how successful teams are run.  There wasn't a clear over-arching team-building philosophy.  There aren't often repeated visions of what a successful team looks like.   What I saw in Hard Knocks was two men focused on the tactical level of team building while lacking the strategic plans that should guide the tactical.

Look, I appreciate that sometimes great coaches or GMs can start off slowly.  One only needs to look at the reality that the Browns fired Bill Belichick, the greatest HC of all time.  The challenge is identifying who is worth the time and patience (that Mara speaks of).

With Schoen and Daboll, my issue is that I do not see promise either in the results they have produced or in the process I have witnessed.  I wonder what Mara is seeing that makes him believe that Schoen and Daboll have a good process, as he witnessed from Tom Coughlin firsthand, how it should be done.

Of course, Mara has two relatives who seem to be quite happy with their jobs and roles in the current Schoen and Daboll organization that may be whispering in his ear how great these two guys are.  After all, my vision for a culture and organization correction would most likely sideline or reduce the role of both nepo babies. 

If you think your head coach is doings things right with things like discipline, structure, getting players to believe in team and play hard, then it may just be needing more talent so you give the coach more time to execute his plan.  If the coach is failing there, you make a change.

Are those things happening or not?  I can't tell.  I think the offense is a massive fail.  The defense is better in some areas for sure.

It's really strange to think the Tom Coughlin got fired -- and I have to say -- it was not without some justification. It really seemed like the team lost some discipline and I remember them losing so many games in like the last 2 minutes.

The 2012 team was 9-7 and missed the playoffs and, that was regarded as a big disppointment. But now it has just become the acceptance that they totally suck.

The only reason Shoen and Daboll are getting this long leash is because   they fired so many coaches in such a short o period of time; not because either is any good.

Quote from: Fletch on October 24, 2024, 10:43:54 AMIt's really strange to think the Tom Coughlin got fired -- and I have to say -- it was not without some justification. It really seemed like the team lost some discipline and I remember them losing so many games in like the last 2 minutes.

The 2012 team was 9-7 and missed the playoffs and, that was regarded as a big disppointment. But now it has just become the acceptance that they totally suck.

The only reason Shoen and Daboll are getting this long leash is because   they fired so many coaches in such a short o period of time; not because either is any good.

Coughlin was the last guy Reese could throw under the bus to save his job (after having performed badly for years)

They are getting this long leash likely because they told Mara Jones isn't going to cut it, he insisted, and now here we are.  By not picking up that 5th year they told the whole world they don't want this guy.  Then after 2022 they signed him.  Did they suddenly have a change of heart or where they perhaps pressured to alter their plan?  And as it turns out, altering that plan was a colossal mistake.  To fire them now would be such a jerk thing to do that while I don't think Mara has much football sense I do believe him to be too much of a kind man to do that sort of thing.  He's going to let Daboll/Schoen pick their QB and prove they can win without Jones.  If they can't they will be gone.  If they can, both of them will be here a while.  They have one shot at this to get their QB so they better do their homework and not miss.

The less that the Maras mess with the team, the better. Whether or not we may think Schoen and Daboll, individually or collectively, are failing, there can be no such question when it comes to the Maras.

It took Rozelle and George Young to help nudge the Giants to their first 2 Lombardis and Archie Manning to have done likewise with the second 2. Yeah, Yeah, I know that's too simplistic, but I think you can see my point.

It seems rather obvious that a change in the Commanders ownership has shown immediate benefit unlike that of the "candied in aspic" situation that now has marked Jerrah Jones's Boys with a far longer Super Bowl deficit than that of the Duke of Wellington's Giants.

Cheers!

Quote from: Fletch on October 24, 2024, 10:43:54 AMIt's really strange to think the Tom Coughlin got fired -- and I have to say -- it was not without some justification. It really seemed like the team lost some discipline and I remember them losing so many games in like the last 2 minutes.

The 2012 team was 9-7 and missed the playoffs and, that was regarded as a big disppointment. But now it has just become the acceptance that they totally suck.

The only reason Shoen and Daboll are getting this long leash is because A. they fired so many coaches in such a short o period of time. and B. because they never even got to pick their own QB.

I have the same recollection on about 3 games that Coughlin blew in the final 2 minutes in his final season in 15 that were due to coaching decisions. One was inexplicably trying not to score a TD with the ball in the red zone to go up 2 scores that backfired. Josh Brown kicked a 19 yard FG and then the D let Romo waltz down the field and win it with a TD. Another was a time out miscalculation.

Look out for a potential huge QB move at the deadline. Something's up.

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 24, 2024, 11:08:40 AMCoughlin was the last guy Reese could throw under the bus to save his job (after having performed badly for years)

OK fair enough but he didn't go to coach anywhere else. He went to Jville Front office as consultant / exec type role. 2 things can be true at once. He coached for 12 years just the Giants. Eventually that has to take its toll. I mean I specifically remember players saying they didn't want to play for Coughlin because of things like fining them for being late to meetings and the like. I can't help but wonder if after the 2 SBs that he kinda got a little lackluster with that kind of thing.

Quote from: Fletch on October 24, 2024, 10:43:54 AMIt's really strange to think the Tom Coughlin got fired -- and I have to say -- it was not without some justification. It really seemed like the team lost some discipline and I remember them losing so many games in like the last 2 minutes.

The 2012 team was 9-7 and missed the playoffs and, that was regarded as a big disppointment. But now it has just become the acceptance that they totally suck.

The only reason Shoen and Daboll are getting this long leash is because  they fired so many coaches in such a short o period of time; not because either is any good.

Our standards have plummeted for sure. Jerry Reese... SMH. That guy couldn't draft either. Being saddled with his busts was what really put the nail in Tom's coff(l)in IMO.

Puns aside... Schoen has hit on some late-rounders, but 1st and 2nd are a different story. Neal is shaping up to be an Ereck Flowers-level bust (albeit with a better attitude). Thibs offers so little strength at EDGE that our defense improved when we lost him. Hyatt can't run routes. JMS... I still hold out hope for him but he had a rough start.

Quote from: 4 Aces on October 24, 2024, 11:23:27 AMLook out for a potential huge QB move at the deadline. Something's up.

Which team ? Not the Giants I reckon. I suspect Jones is coming back next year also and, the Giants draft a TE and a running back in rounds 1 and 2 repectively to "help Daniel".

Fletch - the Giants. They're trying to do something.

Wait till the empty seats become a national joke starting around mid November.  He may change his mind about Daboll.

But then again, if he is willing to commit to a new QB and this duo for 2 - 3 years surely it will all turn around.

Yeah, right.