Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: todge on October 30, 2024, 07:06:32 PMThe Giants would have drafted Drake Maye. He's been terrible with the Patriots and couldn't beat out Brisette. Granted it's early but he hasn't shown a thing yet.

Maye has the same number of TDs as Daniel Jones this season. Yet you keep trotting out excuses for Jones in year 6 while claiming Maye has been terrible after 2 games. It's okay to be a homer, just don't try to convince people you're being objective. You're not.

Quote from: todge on October 30, 2024, 07:06:32 PMSo if the Giants drafted Maye, there would be no Nabers as well as Nubin or Phillips. They would have a huge question mark at QB. But everyone would be happy because Jones is gone. Cautionary tale - just drafting a QB doesn't guarantee automatic success.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No one who follows the NFL thinks or expects anything remotely resembling this "automatic success" strawman you built.

The constant misrepresentation of how folks feel about Jones is off the charts on this board... on both sides of the argument.

For the umpteenth time, we've seen Jones for over 5 seasons now with different permutations of coaching staffs and support pillars. He's the one constant on the field. Many of us want Jones gone because there's no evidence that he can be better than his lone playoff season: an average QB.

We'd rather have a rookie QB on a rookie deal and give him HALF the time Jones has had.

Unfortunately we are still waiting for the latter.

Quote from: kingm56 on October 30, 2024, 05:23:26 PMWhat's your point?  Are you suggesting teams shouldn't draft QBs because of the Brown's failures?


@brownelvis54 - great write up. 

No, just that if you are going to draft one make sure that when you select him the odds of success are greatly in your favor.

I believe Washington with Jayden Daniels and Chicago with Caleb Williams both nailed their picks. Both were selected #1 and #2 overall, because the QB draft class at the top was strong. Both had elite talent which you could see in their college games, and which now has translated beautifully in their NFL careers.

Throwing darts at a dart board to see what sticks, like the Browns have done for the past twenty years, well it gets you the Browns.

The Giants are a better franchise than that.

Quote from: Doc16LT56 on October 30, 2024, 07:16:51 PMMaye has the same number of TDs as Daniel Jones this season. Yet you keep trotting out excuses for Jones in year 6 while claiming Maye has been terrible after 2 games. It's okay to be a homer, just don't try to convince people you're being objective. You're not.

Doc,

You're a pretty good poster, but I'd just say this.

DJ had a TD called back against the Eagles because of a push off by Theo.

Last week another passing TD was called back because of an illegal motion by Nabers.

There have been several passing TD's that should have counted towards DJ's stats, but they've been taken away.

I would say on the season DJ should have any where's from 8-10 passing TD's.

By the way this doesn't downgrade what Maye has done, as he could end up being a good QB as well.

Just trying to bring some balance to the force.

Quote from: sxdxca38 on October 30, 2024, 08:07:12 PMDoc,

You're a pretty good poster, but I'd just say this.

DJ had a TD called back against the Eagles because of a push off by Theo.

Last week another passing TD was called back because of an illegal motion by Nabers.

There have been several passing TD's that should have counted towards DJ's stats, but they've been taken away.

I would say on the season DJ should have any where's from 8-10 passing TD's.

By the way this doesn't downgrade what Maye has done, as he could end up being a good QB as well.

Just trying to bring some balance to the force.

I don't understand your man-love with Jones, but after 6 years, every year brings a new excuse

One year it was bad WRs
Then it was bad OL,
Then it was dropped passes,
Then it was a new coach and a new playbook
And now it is bad calls by the refs.

But the one constant is Jones. He has never shown he can overcome even one of these so-called problems, yet some just continue to belabor all the things that are preventing him from being a top-notch QB. Maybe the constant is lack of QB skills to overcome anything bad.

Quote from: LennG on October 30, 2024, 08:22:38 PMI don't understand your man-love with Jones, but after 6 years, every year brings a new excuse

One year it was bad WRs
Then it was bad OL,
Then it was dropped passes,
Then it was a new coach and a new playbook
And now it is bad calls by the refs.

But the one constant is Jones. He has never shown he can overcome even one of these so-called problems, yet some just continue to belabor all the things that are preventing him from being a top-notch QB. Maybe the constant is lack of QB skills to overcome anything bad.

I never said he was elite, and I never said I had man love for DJ.

I was just bringing out the facts of what has happened the last few games.

The reality is Daniel Jones will never be an elite QB, like Caleb Williams and Jayden Daniels will most likely be.

However, he isn't as bad as some have made him out to be, and the points I showed prove that point.

Thank you

Quote from: sxdxca38 on October 30, 2024, 08:27:06 PMI never said he was elite, and I never said I had man love for DJ.

I was just bringing out the facts of what has happened the last few games.

The reality is Daniel Jones will never be an elite QB, like Caleb Williams and Jayden Daniels will most likely be.

However, he isn't as bad as some have made him out to be, and the points I showed prove that point.

Thank you

You accurately highlighted some missed opportunities; however, you completely omitted ints averted by superior WR play or penalties. Do you recall the play made by Nabers that turned a sure int into a reception, which produced a TD?  Yes, we had a few TDs called back, but at the end of season, these  tend to even out, which makes playing the "ifs and but" game pointless. The reality is, DJ just isn't a good QB. 

Quote from: bobalobabingbong on October 30, 2024, 04:07:15 PMI don't know if that is quite the case.

Tim Brady, Brett Favre, Drew Brees to name a few of some of the better QBs of the last couple/few decades all were drafted after round one.  Rodgers was a late pick in round one.  I know we have some really good QBs playing that are 1st rounders.  I just wanted to point out some of the greats were not. 

You just never really know.

When I say mid-round I mean 3rd - 5th rounds.  Rarely no RARELY do you get q productive starting NFL QB.  Brady was one exception.

Quote from: kingm56 on October 30, 2024, 08:46:05 PMYou highlighted somr missed opportunities; however, you completely omitted ints averted by superior WR play or errors.  Do recall the play made by Nabers that turned a sure int into a reception, which produced a TD?  Yes, we had a few TDs called back, but at the end of season these tend to even out, which makes playing the "ifs and but" game pointless. The reality is, DJ just isn't a good QB. 

Yes, but its more than just the called back TD's.

It's the 56-yard catch and run by Slayton that was nullified by an illegal man downfield.

It's the DJ runs that have been called back because of holding on the TE's like Theo and Bellinger.

It's the dropped passes on 3rd and 4th down, at crucial points of a game, that continuously happen that kill offensive drives.

DJ will never be an elite QB like Daniels and Williams, that is plain to see, but he is serviceable and better than his numbers have shown.

Quote from: Philosophers on October 30, 2024, 08:47:51 PMWhen I say mid-round I mean 3rd - 5th rounds.  Rarely no RARELY do you get q productive starting NFL QB.  Brady was one exception.

And I agree with you, usually the elite QBs come from the top of the 1st rd.

Quote from: Philosophers on October 30, 2024, 08:47:51 PMWhen I say mid-round I mean 3rd - 5th rounds.  Rarely no RARELY do you get q productive starting NFL QB.  Brady was one exception.

Kirk Cousins 4th round

Brock Purdy  7th round

Marc Bulger 6th round

Mark Brunell  5th round

Rich Gannon 4th round

Brad Johnson 9th round

Matt Hasselbeck  6th round

Mark Rypien  6th round

Joe Theismann  4th round

Bart Starr  17th round

Roger Staubach  10th round

Tom Brady 6th round

Russel Wilson 3rd round

Matt Cassel  7th round

Kurt Warner undrafted

Johnny Unitas  9th round

Warren Moon Undrafted

Brock Osweiler  5th round

Nick Foles  4th round

Dak Prescott  4th round

Tyrod Taylor   6th round

Elvis Grbac  8th round

Trent Green  8th round

Neil O'Donnell 3rd round

Quote from: kingm56 on October 30, 2024, 05:58:24 PMThe KC Chiefs disagree with you, and all they've done is go to 6 strait AFC championship games and win 3 SBs.  Was QB a position of need when they drafted Mahomes?   What about the Packers?  Did they need a QB when they selected Rodgers or Love? 

Great point Matt. I would add that Tom Brady is arguably the greatest QB of all time (indisputably top five), and even in that case, the Pats continued to draft QBs while he was there.

While I questioned some of Jerry Reeses decisions. I remember one time he said he drafts like he has no team, and goes BPA.

When a GM or Team can make that approach with better execution than he did in his final years, that's the approach that works best. With maybe few exceptions when the board falls a certain way.

Quote from: brownelvis54 on October 30, 2024, 09:23:13 PMKirk Cousins 4th round

Brock Purdy  7th round

Marc Bulger 6th round

Mark Brunell  5th round

Rich Gannon 4th round

Brad Johnson 9th round

Matt Hasselbeck  6th round

Mark Rypien  6th round

Joe Theismann  4th round

Bart Starr  17th round

Roger Staubach  10th round

Tom Brady 6th round

Russel Wilson 3rd round

Matt Cassel  7th round

Kurt Warner undrafted

Johnny Unitas  9th round

Warren Moon Undrafted

Brock Osweiler  5th round

Nick Foles  4th round

Dak Prescott  4th round

Tyrod Taylor   6th round

Elvis Grbac  8th round

Trent Green  8th round

Neil O'Donnell 3rd round

Quote from: brownelvis54 on October 30, 2024, 09:23:13 PMKirk Cousins 4th round

Brock Purdy  7th round

Marc Bulger 6th round

Mark Brunell  5th round

Rich Gannon 4th round

Brad Johnson 9th round

Matt Hasselbeck  6th round

Mark Rypien  6th round

Joe Theismann  4th round

Bart Starr  17th round

Roger Staubach  10th round

Tom Brady 6th round

Russel Wilson 3rd round

Matt Cassel  7th round

Kurt Warner undrafted

Johnny Unitas  9th round

Warren Moon Undrafted

Brock Osweiler  5th round

Nick Foles  4th round

Dak Prescott  4th round

Tyrod Taylor   6th round

Elvis Grbac  8th round

Trent Green  8th round

Neil O'Donnell 3rd round

Ok a knee jerk reaction would be that your 24 QBs listed.  I question some of the QBs you listed as being top QBs however regardless.

John Unitas played starting in 1956.  If you assume on average 8 QBs are drafted each year that would be 544 QBs since 1956.  How many of those became top shelf QBs?

Quote from: sxdxca38 on October 30, 2024, 08:54:20 PMAnd I agree with you, usually the elite QBs come from the top of the 1st rd.

That's really not the case, as I pointed out in my last past.