Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: katkavage on November 03, 2024, 04:56:16 PMWould you accuse Washington of tanking last year? Of course not. But they traded two defensive linemen and more and didn't win the rest of the year. Silently tanking.

In the thread where I advocated trading Slayton I called it ethical tanking.  Shedding CAP and getting draft picks is a legitimate strategy for building.  Sitting Jones to safeguard CAP space by not triggering the injury clause is a legitimate strategy for building.  Limiting the snaps for, say Dexter, to preserve his health is a legitimate strategy for building.

That these moves might limit the team's wins is besides the point.  Sacrificing the short term in favor of the long term is a path to a successful life, why would it be a bad path for a football team?  Schoen should establish an untouchable list (and it would be a short one) and then be scrutinizing the injury lists and rosters of every team with playoff aspirations to winkle out situations where the Giants have a player not on that list that might help them, IMO.

Quote from: MagicRat on November 03, 2024, 05:13:59 PMMy head agrees with you 100%.
But, next Sunday when we watch the game in Germany, I'll be pulling with every fibre of my being for us to win.
It's what I do.

I would never encourage a fan to root against the Giants nor would I do it myself.  But I would root for the team to make moves to maximize the long term even if it means we put out a younger, less experienced, less talents team - but I'd still root for that team.

Quote from: todge on November 03, 2024, 08:20:16 PMOk so if you got your wish -

The Giants tried to move up to get Drake Maye. So far Maye has been horrible. The Giants wouldn't have Nabers and either Nubin or Tracy either.

Would the Giants be a better team with Drake Maye as your QB and no Nabers and no Nubin/ Tracy?

Old saying in life - be careful, you might get what you're wishing for.


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Maye made an Eli-esqe play as time ran out to tie the Titans.  Would the Giants be a better team with Maye and no Nabers?  I dunno.  Are the Giants a better team without Maye and with Nabers?  Would there be more hope for the future?  I dunno.

Quote from: madbadger on November 03, 2024, 09:21:43 PMBrilliant plan. Hope you like losing again next year.

An alternative would be signing someone like Sam Darnold who has played well and might be wanting to continue to be a starting QB next year when JJ McCarthy is back from injury.  It would be a two-way chance.  He could be a decent stop-gap or he, less likely, could be good enough to keep going forward.  And he wouldn't likely kill the the CAP.

Quote from: Stringer Bell on November 03, 2024, 10:08:30 PMAnd drafting Carson Beck or Jalen Milroe is a brilliant plan and will lead to a winning year next year? Spare me.

Where did I say we should draft either of those guys? I clearly said Cam Ward in my post. In fact he was the only quarterback I named. It's hard to have a conversation with someone who clearly is acting in bad faith.

Quote from: madbadger on November 03, 2024, 10:55:27 PMWhere did I say we should draft either of those guys? I clearly said Cam Ward in my post. In fact he was the only quarterback I named. It's hard to have a conversation with someone who clearly is acting in bad faith.

We're currently picking 7th, with 4 teams ahead of us who need QBs and are just as bad - if not worse - than us. I highly doubt Ward is an option unless you plan to trade multiple firsts and a second - which would be a terrible move.

So based on who would actually be available when we pick, what's your brilliant plan?

Quote from: Stringer Bell on November 03, 2024, 11:41:37 PMWe're currently picking 7th, with 4 teams ahead of us who need QBs and are just as bad - if not worse - than us. I highly doubt Ward is an option unless you plan to trade multiple firsts and a second - which would be a terrible move.

So based on who would actually be available when we pick, what's your brilliant plan?

It doesn't matter what our brilliant plan is. It matters what Schoen's will be. He is not an idiot. He knows his seat and his reputation gets hotter and hotter as the franchise descends down and down. He will do something to preserve his job to get a QB. He passed on a QB last year now he cannot whether you like the QB or not.

Quote from: Stringer Bell on November 03, 2024, 11:41:37 PMWe're currently picking 7th, with 4 teams ahead of us who need QBs and are just as bad - if not worse - than us. I highly doubt Ward is an option unless you plan to trade multiple firsts and a second - which would be a terrible move.

So based on who would actually be available when we pick, what's your brilliant plan?

Keep in mind we play Carolina next and we're probably going to easily win. We won't be anywhere near the top of the draft this year.

Quote from: AYM on November 04, 2024, 06:43:45 AMKeep in mind we play Carolina next and we're probably going to easily win. We won't be anywhere near the top of the draft this year.

Exactly. Plus Cleveland and Oakland are desperate for a QB. And maybe even New Orleans.

None of those teams would be willing to trade out of their spots and miss out on a QB, which means the Giants would have to trade up all the way to the top.

Some don't seem to get the fact that the Giants can't force other teams to trade. We saw it last year, "Why didn't they move up for a QB?" They tried. No one was willing to trade. We saw it with Barkley, "They should have traded him!" Why would a team give up assets when they could just sign him in the offseason?

So even if Schoen loves Ward - and I don't see it - it's not up to him. And in the off chance he does find a trade partner, we'd be trading multiple premium picks, which this team with all its holes can ill afford.

Which is why waiting one more year makes sense. Not sure why it warranted being treated with condescension.

Quote from: Stringer Bell on November 04, 2024, 07:06:30 AMExactly. Plus Cleveland and Oakland are desperate for a QB. And maybe even New Orleans.

None of those teams would be willing to trade out of their spots and miss out on a QB, which means the Giants would have to trade up all the way to the top.

Some don't seem to get the fact that the Giants can't force other teams to trade. We saw it last year, "Why didn't they move up for a QB?" They tried. No one was willing to trade. We saw it with Barkley, "They should have traded him!" Why would a team give up assets when they could just sign him in the offseason?

So even if Schoen loves Ward - and I don't see it - it's not up to him. And in the off chance he does find a trade partner, we'd be trading multiple premium picks, which this team with all its holes can ill afford.

Which is why waiting one more year makes sense. Not sure why it warranted being treated with condescension.

Exactly. Because you make too much sense during game day when the same dead horse has its carcass beaten to a pulp.

Why scream QB when next year's draft isn't especially strong for one when the offense has any even bigger problem at left tackle?

If anyone here has incurred a Lisfranc injury requiring surgery, raise your hand.

If anyone here plays offensive tackle in the NFL, weighs over 325 pounds, and has had previous injuries to the same foot, surgery on the other ankle, knee issues and hamstring issues, you soon realize that this Lisfranc injury is a progressive debilitating injury and that Thomas is now damaged goods. He is what they refer to in the automobile industry as a "salvage title."

The Giants need a left tackle stud who will give them a decade and change of dominating play in protecting their QB's blindside. It's that time again and this upcoming draft will be the opportunity to pick up the best LT in the draft.

QB can get by with an experienced FA signing and look to 2026 to potentially draft a long term player.

This current team collapsed like dominoes when Thomas went down and that just doesn't work for me. If the left tackle is the cornerstone of this offense, then you get those scouts out there, find the very best in the nation who gives you performance, reliability and durability and go after him in April.

"Fix the Damned Offensive Line, once and for all!!!"

Peace!

Quote from: kartanoman on November 04, 2024, 07:52:08 AMExactly. Because you make too much sense during game day when the same dead horse has its carcass beaten to a pulp.

Why scream QB when next year's draft isn't especially strong for one when the offense has any even bigger problem at left tackle?

If anyone here has incurred a Lisfranc injury requiring surgery, raise your hand.

If anyone here plays offensive tackle in the NFL, weighs over 325 pounds, and has had previous injuries to the same foot, surgery on the other ankle, knee issues and hamstring issues, you soon realize that this Lisfranc injury is a progressive debilitating injury and that Thomas is now damaged goods. He is what they refer to in the automobile industry as a "salvage title."

The Giants need a left tackle stud who will give them a decade and change of dominating play in protecting their QB's blindside. It's that time again and this upcoming draft will be the opportunity to pick up the best LT in the draft.

QB can get by with an experienced FA signing and look to 2026 to potentially draft a long term player.

This current team collapsed like dominoes when Thomas went down and that just doesn't work for me. If the left tackle is the cornerstone of this offense, then you get those scouts out there, find the very best in the nation who gives you performance, reliability and durability and go after him in April.

"Fix the Damned Offensive Line, once and for all!!!"

Peace!

Excellent post, kman! As these last 2 games have shown, this team can't just hope Thomas comes back and plays at his former level. Because if he doesn't - or he can't - it won't matter what QB is brought in. They will be doomed and shell shocked in no time.

One good thing about picking where we are likely to pick (5 to 7 range), is that we should have our pick of the top OT after a couple of QBs, the 2 stud CBs, and likely Mason Graham get selected in the top 5.

Seems Banks and Campbell are the 2 consensus top OTs. Both have elite pedigree and performed exceptionally well for top programs. Draft one of them, sign a stud FA guard to replace Van Roten, and then we have something to build around.

Quote from: todge on November 03, 2024, 08:20:16 PMOk so if you got your wish -

The Giants tried to move up to get Drake Maye. So far Maye has been horrible. The Giants wouldn't have Nabers and either Nubin or Tracy either.

Would the Giants be a better team with Drake Maye as your QB and no Nabers and no Nubin/ Tracy?

Old saying in life - be careful, you might get what you're wishing for.


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You keep saying this, when Maye has been playing as well, if not better than Jones with a much lower cap hit. He made a hell of a play yesterday, one Jones would never be able to make.

DJ only has 2 more TDs in 4 more starts.

Maye is averaging a higher QBR and QB Rating, albeit slightly, on an equally bad if not worse team. He also has a higher completion % also with his passes averaging the same distance as Jones at 6.2

Let's not pretend that the Pats have a significantly better team loaded with weapons and all pros.

If you claim Maye is playing horrible, how bad is DJ playing then?

Quote from: Stringer Bell on November 04, 2024, 08:17:55 AMExcellent post, kman! As these last 2 games have shown, this team can't just hope Thomas comes back and plays at his former level. Because if he doesn't - or he can't - it won't matter what QB is brought in. They will be doomed and shell shocked in no time.

One good thing about picking where we are likely to pick (5 to 7 range), is that we should have our pick of the top OT after a couple of QBs, the 2 stud CBs, and likely Mason Graham get selected in the top 5.

Seems Banks and Campbell are the 2 consensus top OTs. Both have elite pedigree and performed exceptionally well for top programs. Draft one of them, sign a stud FA guard to replace Van Roten, and then we have something to build around.

Didn't they say the same thing about Neal?
Not trying to be sarcastic I just remember everyone was thrilled when he was selected.

The problem with the wait another year narrative is that Schoen and Daboll might not get another year. Do you really see Daboll returning after three miserable years (last year, this year and next). And if they have a decent year next year with a free agent QB (decent not great) they won't be picking high enough to get one in 2026. They are in QB hell and it's up to Schoen to find a way get them out of it sooner than later or he and Daboll are goners.

Quote from: LennG on November 04, 2024, 09:27:38 AMDidn't they say the same thing about Neal?
Not trying to be sarcastic I just remember everyone was thrilled when he was selected.

The draft is not a guarantee, that's for sure. But OT has seemingly had a pretty decent success rate as far as top picks go.

For every Neal, there are 5-6 Alts, Slaters, Wirfs, Sewells, Darrisaws.

This year's class outside of Alt looks good, with Fuaga, Latham, and Fashanu playing well.

Last year's class - Johnson, Wright, Skoronski - has been solid, as well.