Big Blue Huddle

I agree.

Fundamentally, the Giants play in an outdoor northeast stadium. Their style of team should reflect that. I couldn't care less what the league trends are.

Power run game, deep shot play action passing. Dominant DL. Build your program with this style of team in mind, year after year. Eventually you've got a team full of the same style guys rather than a random collection of talent. Parcells and Coughlin both understood it.

And guess what? It still works. It always will. 

I respect Daboll - but let some dome team with a hot shot QB use his shotgun heavy approach. It's not a fit here.

Jared Goff's mastery of every nuance of play action then taking intermediate shots is exactly what works.  Heavy running then play action and a D is at their mercy.

Quote from: 4 Aces on November 04, 2024, 08:45:52 PMI agree.

Fundamentally, the Giants play in an outdoor northeast stadium. Their style of team should reflect that. I couldn't care less what the league trends are.

Power run game, deep shot play action passing. Dominant DL. Build your program with this style of team in mind, year after year. Eventually you've got a team full of the same style guys rather than a random collection of talent. Parcells and Coughlin both understood it.

And guess what? It still works. It always will. 

I respect Daboll - but let some dome team with a hot shot QB use his shotgun heavy approach. It's not a fit here.

You get it as much as Parcells and Coughlin. When both had the QB to rifle the ball downfield, it was much easier to take their shots at big plays. Both had steady protection out of their Left Offensive Tackles and both Benson and Elliott/Moore were among the best in the league when the Giants won their Super Bowls under Parcells.

The current team has been playing an often injured Andrew Thomas who, had he not incurred the number of lower extremity injuries he's dealt with throughout his career, would be one of the best in the game today. As it is, when healthy, he is in the upper echelon of LT. But his latest injury is going to set him back enough to where he is now damaged goods and his footwork will be impacted and it is likely to affect his game. The man will have plates in his foot for the rest of his life. For you and I, it becomes an inconvenience. For a world class athlete of his size, it becomes a significant impact. He won't be the same player. If he can be 75-80%, that would be successful.

The Giants must start with a new anchor on the O-line this offseason to have any chance of building a potent offensive attack. QB can come next, but LT is paramount.

Peace!

Quote from: Philosophers on November 04, 2024, 10:17:36 AMI am afraid if we keep Dabs and draft a new QB we will continue with too much dink and dunk.  Yes it's DJ but it's also Dabs.

I want an offense that has LBs back on their heels and safeties back period and a coach demanding that and a QB executing that.

Move on from Dabs.  Move on from DJ.

Phil: Without a solid offensive line, no offensive system or approach ever works.

The players are now a bit better but still not good enough (especially without our best guy).

The only thing "consistent" about our OL is they consistently take turns making mistakes and committing penalties, particularly at key times in games (the latter being Carl Banks' main point over many years).

Bob

Daboll throws the ball down the field. He did so in Buffalo and he has continually brought this up as something he challenges Jones to do. However Jones can't. He continually gets confused and checks down, or is inaccurate when he does try to throw it. So what can Daboll do? He adjust the gameplan to try and deal with DJ's limitations and still win. How many times have we heard the announcers say that the Giants have receivers open after DJ checks down?

Just because DJ sucks and can't execute the complete gameplan doesn't seem to me like Dabolls fault. He is trying to win with what he has.

Quote from: VanPelt on November 05, 2024, 10:05:21 AMJones... continually gets confused and checks down, or is inaccurate when he does try to throw it.

Van: One other reason: he doesn't trust any of his WR's other than Nabers... and IMO for good reason.  Bob

I want a coach that can devise a gameplan with the talent he is given.  This is not college where the staff can recruit players who specifically fit their system.  In the NFL, a coach needs to be able to adjust. 

Quote from: Bob In PA on November 05, 2024, 10:11:37 AMVan: One other reason: he doesn't trust any of his WR's other than Nabers... and IMO for good reason.  Bob

Bob,

He throws to Slayton and Robinson on the regular. If trust is the issue, he doesn't trust himself to make the right play. Instead, he plays it safe to minimize mistakes.

Quote from: coggs on November 05, 2024, 10:30:24 AMI want a coach that can devise a gameplan with the talent he is given.  This is not college where the staff can recruit players who specifically fit their system.  In the NFL, a coach needs to be able to adjust. 

Daboll has done exactly that with Jones. Based on the talent, Daboll isolated plays that Jones can be successful at. Unfortunately, there aren't many plays that Jones can execute that involve making good reads and throws downfield. His wheelhouse is 15 yards and closer.

That's why Taylor and DeVito were able to push the ball downfield last year when they played. The plays are there to be made in the intermediate and deep routes... Jones struggles with them.

Quote from: T200 on November 05, 2024, 10:38:11 AMDaboll has done exactly that with Jones. Based on the talent, Daboll isolated plays that Jones can be successful at. Unfortunately, there aren't many plays that Jones can execute that involve making good reads and throws downfield. His wheelhouse is 15 yards and closer.

That's why Taylor and DeVito were able to push the ball downfield last year when they played. The plays are there to be made in the intermediate and deep routes... Jones struggles with them.

The offense is designed around jones . 

His limited abilities massively limits what can be run.  That being said the teams inefficiencies to run the simple stuff is a sign of the limitations of personal and has to reflect on the at some level on the coach .

But the limited playbook and simplicity of the offense is directly related to Jones and not Daboll.

Quote from: Bob In PA on November 05, 2024, 10:11:37 AMVan: One other reason: he doesn't trust any of his WR's other than Nabers... and IMO for good reason.  Bob

But Baker Mayfield has no problem trusting the guy who was 4th-5th on the WR depth chart a year ago.

Quote from: VanPelt on November 05, 2024, 10:05:21 AMDaboll throws the ball down the field. He did so in Buffalo and he has continually brought this up as something he challenges Jones to do. However Jones can't. He continually gets confused and checks down, or is inaccurate when he does try to throw it. So what can Daboll do? He adjust the gameplan to try and deal with DJ's limitations and still win. How many times have we heard the announcers say that the Giants have receivers open after DJ checks down?

Just because DJ sucks and can't execute the complete gameplan doesn't seem to me like Dabolls fault. He is trying to win with what he has.

This. During my timespan of Giant fandom I have watched Perkins, Parcells, and Coughlin develop their teams in a similar way to building a house. Foundation then features. The three aforementioned coaches played Giant football. I really do believe Daboll wants to do the same if given the opportunity. Some of you will say well he has had the opportunity. One of the foundations of Giant football is the ability to run the ball. With a Rookie running back, and the semblance of an OL the Giants have at times this year had/have an effective running game. Some of you will say well what about when we had Saquon. My reply is the oft injured Saquon running behind no semblance of an OL. It's an evolutionary process that has been greatly hindered by a helmsman with a very limited ability to steer, and navigate a proper NFL offense. Perkins/Parcells had a young Simms, Coughlin had Eli. Dabol has/had Jones. The only similarity between the three is that they all wore low numbers. Building a first competitive, then a winning team takes time. The one absolutely necessary ingredient is a foundational call it franchise QB. Maybe I would trust Jones to run a McDonalds or Dunkin Donuts franchise, but not the Giants. Some fans here cringe at the mention of losing for draft position. Would those fans remember or rue if those wins were losses and Daniels or Maye was our QB? We would have hope. There is no hope with Jones. 

Quote from: T200 on November 05, 2024, 10:38:11 AMDaboll has done exactly that with Jones. Based on the talent, Daboll isolated plays that Jones can be successful at. Unfortunately, there aren't many plays that Jones can execute that involve making good reads and throws downfield. His wheelhouse is 15 yards and closer.

That's why Taylor and DeVito were able to push the ball downfield last year when they played. The plays are there to be made in the intermediate and deep routes... Jones struggles with them.

Agreed, which is why I want Daboll here next year.

Quote from: T200 on November 05, 2024, 10:34:59 AMBob,

He throws to Slayton and Robinson on the regular. If trust is the issue, he doesn't trust himself to make the right play. Instead, he plays it safe to minimize mistakes.

Tim: I don't see it quite that way.

It's a different type of trust to throw short passes (i.e., you know the guy will be where he's supposed to be and you and he are on-the-same-page regarding analysis of "choice" routes, which means you both see the field the same way.

Throwing the ball long requires trust that the guys will (1) see the ball all the way; (2) adjust his speed and orientation on the field to be in near enough to catch it when it comes down; and (3) most importantly, he'll fight for the ball, and if he can't win the fight he'll do everything possible to keep the defender from catching it (like a DB would).

Bob

Quote from: Bob In PA on November 05, 2024, 12:58:00 PMTim: I don't see it quite that way.

It's a different type of trust to throw short passes (i.e., you know the guy will be where he's supposed to be and you and he are on-the-same-page regarding analysis of "choice" routes, which means you both see the field the same way.

Throwing the ball long requires trust that the guys will (1) see the ball all the way; (2) adjust his speed and orientation on the field to be in near enough to catch it when it comes down; and (3) most importantly, he'll fight for the ball, and if he can't win the fight he'll do everything possible to keep the defender from catching it (like a DB would).

Bob

Bob,

If that's on his mind (front or back),  you're giving him more credit than I am!

Seriously... that's what practice is supposed to do: develop chemistry, timing, and trust. No reason for them to no be on the same page at the halfway point of the season.