Big Blue Huddle

Baring and injury to Daniel Jones (who, playing like a bottom third of the league QB, can win games), the Giants are in a catch 22 situation

Joseph Heller coined the term in his 1961 novel Catch-22, which describes absurd bureaucratic constraints on soldiers in World War II. The term is introduced by the character Doc Daneeka, an army psychiatrist who invokes "Catch-22" to explain why any pilot requesting mental evaluation for insanity—hoping to be found not sane enough to fly and thereby escape dangerous missions—demonstrates his own sanity in creating the request and thus cannot be declared insane. This phrase also means a dilemma or difficult circumstance from which there is no escape because of mutually conflicting or dependent conditions


For the Giants, the catch-22 is this: If they are just a franchise quarterback away, they should win a few more games this season, which will push them out of a position to acquire said franchise quarterback. If they are not, drafting a franchise quarterback will not significantly change their fortunes, and the lack of talent will jeopardize the development of any drafted quarterback.

To put it another way, for Daboll to get "his" QB he really needs to lose Sunday.   Yet, losing Sunday will likely put his future with the Giants in serious jeopardy.

Another way to look at it is that the Giants are essentially in "quarterback hell." Although their records are worse than described, they have been good enough, when combined with so many quarterback-needy teams, that the description still works.


"If you take a guy just to take a guy, especially at the quarterback position, and he fails, you set yourself back five years," Gettleman told reporters at the Senior Bowl last week. "You set yourself back five years because there are teams that are in what I call quarterback hell. They've got quality defense, they've got a good special teams, and they're going 7-9, 8-8, 9-7. And now if there is a legitimate guy, they've got to trade up and give away the farm to get the guy."

Yeah, they aren't just a QB away. I don't think any respectable fan thinks that.

It's just the QB they have isn't worth the cap hit that he takes up.

Whilst he's not the sole issue, he's certainly not the solution either. 

Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on November 09, 2024, 10:05:49 AMYeah, they aren't just a QB away. I don't think any respectable fan thinks that.

It's just the QB they have isn't worth the cap hit that he takes up.

Whilst he's not the sole issue, he's certainly not the solution either. 

Ed,

I listened to Mike Lombardi's last podcast.  He said the reason the Giant didn't make any trades at the deadline is because they believe they are a QB away from being a winning team.  Mike's well-connected within the Giants organization, so I think his comments are likely true.

In my mind, Daniel Jones isn't the long-term (or short-term) answer, so I don't think he has anything directly to do with the catch-22/quarterback hell the team is in.

I have every expectation of the Giants winning tomorrow (giving the team 3 wins), and I expect a couple of more wins, which will put them out of reach for them drafting a replacement QB.

Also, fans on this board (I consider almost everyone on our forum respectable fans) have said this team would be a playoff team with a franchise QB.

Here is a way-too-early mock that proves my point.  The Giants are likely to be at 7 or worse by the end of the season.  This assumes two QBs that are worth high picks.  The Giants simply don't get one.  Clearly the Saints and the Panthers will not trade away a chance at a franchise QB.  Plus, between the Giants and a franchise quarterback, the Raiders (who will likely lose out this season) will also sit, and they will be making every effort to grab a franchise quarterback.

I wouldn't count the Browns as a team in the QB hunt, along with the Jets and the Titans lurking just behind the Giants.  It's also possible (in like of the Richardson benching) that the Colts could also be QB needy team.

Good morning, Rich @MightyGiants .

That might have been the case had Thomas not incur his serious injury. Right now, people don't realize it, but they will next season that he will never be a top performer again. The Giants have to consider a new left tackle being as important, if not than more so, than a QB next season.

Thomas can no longer be relied on to be healthy or available for a full season and it may be time to renegotiate his salary.

It may also be necessary to settle on a FA QB signing to bridge the gap until a potential long term prospect becomes available.

Whether or not Daboll stays is irrelevant. Injuries have devastated the team in the worst possible positions, even if the aggregate Lost Man Games total is down from recent years, the impact is the same or potentially worse.

A QB won't solve these problems. Fix the damned offensive line and fortify it with solid reserves at the tackles and then worry about your QB.

I agree that all three QBs on the roster won't be there next season. But I struggle with picking one from a draft that is not strong at the QB position when the team has a huge hole at left offensive tackle. That is a greater need, in my opinion, and must be addressed first. I hear you on the Catch 22, but I think the damage is done and the coach has already been caught like a rat in a trap and there's little chance escaping the inevitable right now.

Oeace!

Quote from: kartanoman on November 09, 2024, 10:39:13 AMGood morning, Rich @MightyGiants .

That might have been the case had Thomas not incur his serious injury. Right now, people don't realize it, but they will next season that he will never be a top performer again. The Giants have to consider a new left tackle being as important, if not than more so, than a QB next season.

Thomas can no longer be relied on to be healthy or available for a full season and it may be time to renegotiate his salary.

It may also be necessary to settle on a FA QB signing to bridge the gap until a potential long term prospect becomes available.

Whether or not Daboll stays is irrelevant. Injuries have devastated the team in the worst possible positions, even if the aggregate Lost Man Games total is down from recent years, the impact is the same or potentially worse.

A QB won't solve these problems. Fix the damned offensive line and fortify it with solid reserves at the tackles and then worry about your QB.

I agree that all three QBs on the roster won't be there next season. But I struggle with picking one from a draft that is not strong at the QB position when the team has a huge hole at left offensive tackle. That is a greater need, in my opinion, and must be addressed first. I hear you on the Catch 22, but I think the damage is done and the coach has already been caught like a rat in a trap and there's little chance escaping the inevitable right now.

Oeace!

Funny that you mentioned OT.   I had messed up posting, and I put the results of the mock, which has the Giants, as you suggested, drafting an OT in round one.

Too many unknowns at this point to try to unwind this year's version of the Gordian Knot. Bob

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 09, 2024, 10:41:30 AMFunny that you mentioned OT.   I had messed up posting, and I put the results of the mock, which has the Giants, as you suggested, drafting an OT in round one.

Brilliant! Thanks Rich @MightyGiants !

Peace!

Cam Ward's style of play of holding the ball FOREVER waiting for someone to get open is a disaster waiting to happen in the NFL.

Big game for Indiana's Routke today against a good Michigan defense. Will be very interested to see how he performs.

You guys don't understand. If Daboll and Schoen do not address the QB situation this off season they will be gone. They painted themselves into a corner by not taking one this past draft.

Quote from: katkavage on November 09, 2024, 06:51:08 PMYou guys don't understand. If Daboll and Schoen do not address the QB situation this off season they will be gone. They painted themselves into a corner by not taking one this past draft.

This team always does things ass backwards. Draft a rb (Barkley) with no OL and draft a WR when you have no one to throw it to him. Barring a miracle middle round qb pick which turns out to be a Brady, dak or Wilson type this team is screwed for years to come.

Quote from: katkavage on November 09, 2024, 06:51:08 PMYou guys don't understand. If Daboll and Schoen do not address the QB situation this off season they will be gone. They painted themselves into a corner by not taking one this past draft.

I understand if they draft the best of what is a weaker QB class, and do not fix the hole on the left side of the offensive line, you, in effect, scratch out Daniel Jones' name, put a new name in there, and the same end result for the next five years unfolds.

Now, if this QB can outrun all 11 defensive players, Keystone Kops style, and throw accurately in motion, I'd be willing to take a chance before getting my left tackle.

But I cannot seriously consider drafting a QB with the left tackle the biggest need in the team. Pick up a QB in FA who will bridge the time to the next big QB acquisition.

This isn't close to a playoff team right now. Fix the cornerstone first, build depth on the line, build up the defensive secondary, maybe draft a QB to develop.

If you can stay near the top of the draft board in 2026, then go get your QB. But next season is not the time to do it.

It sucks, but the line is the best chance of fixing to yield the most improvement.

Peace!

Quote from: kartanoman on November 09, 2024, 07:39:27 PMI understand if they draft the best of what is a weaker QB class, and do not fix the hole on the left side of the offensive line, you, in effect, scratch out Daniel Jones' name, put a new name in there, and the same end result for the next five years unfolds.

Now, if this QB can outrun all 11 defensive players, Keystone Kops style, and throw accurately in motion, I'd be willing to take a chance before getting my left tackle.

But I cannot seriously consider drafting a QB with the left tackle the biggest need in the team. Pick up a QB in FA who will bridge the time to the next big QB acquisition.

This isn't close to a playoff team right now. Fix the cornerstone first, build depth on the line, build up the defensive secondary, maybe draft a QB to develop.

If you can stay near the top of the draft board in 2026, then go get your QB. But next season is not the time to do it.

It sucks, but the line is the best chance of fixing to yield the most improvement.

Peace!

C Chris

I fully understand your need for a quality LT. But a QB is much more important if a team is going to succeed. AND, me, being the guy who is always looking at the glass half empty, do think we have the makings of a playoff team right now if we had a decent enough QB. We have a RB, we have a quality WR and a possible franchise T E. We have pass rushers and an up-and-coming safety. We are a franchise QB away from being competitive with many teams, not the 2-7 doormats we are with Jones. Sure we are a few pieces away from a deep playoff run, but with a better-than-average QB, we could scare a few people. The one constant that is holding us back is the assistance that Jones can play QB at a better level.  He can't.
Yes any QB will need that protection, but if you have the chance to get a good LT or a franchise QB there is no discussion.

The Giants need a new QB. Unless they bring an established veteran who has so cred, they will have a rookie. The rookie will not be Jayden Daniels or CJ Stroud. That rookie will struggle. The team will struggle. It will be a rebuild. But you can't even think of a rebuild without a QB.

Quote from: kartanoman on November 09, 2024, 07:39:27 PMI understand if they draft the best of what is a weaker QB class, and do not fix the hole on the left side of the offensive line, you, in effect, scratch out Daniel Jones' name, put a new name in there, and the same end result for the next five years unfolds.

Now, if this QB can outrun all 11 defensive players, Keystone Kops style, and throw accurately in motion, I'd be willing to take a chance before getting my left tackle.

But I cannot seriously consider drafting a QB with the left tackle the biggest need in the team. Pick up a QB in FA who will bridge the time to the next big QB acquisition.

This isn't close to a playoff team right now. Fix the cornerstone first, build depth on the line, build up the defensive secondary, maybe draft a QB to develop.

If you can stay near the top of the draft board in 2026, then go get your QB. But next season is not the time to do it.

It sucks, but the line is the best chance of fixing to yield the most improvement.

Peace!

Daboll and Schoen do not have until 2026.