Big Blue Huddle

I take this appreciating that Daboll is a friend of his


Mike believes any coach would struggle with NYG (he goes over the list of fired HCs, starting with Coughlin's firing). He believes the problem is that John Mara is a really nice guy who is loyal to a fault. As a result, no one in the building is accountable for doing their jobs well "nobody is demanding excellence in the building").   Nobody (from the video guy to the trainer) worries about getting fired.  He believes the three people running things are John Mara, Ronnie Barnes (says he has a premium parking spot and is as influential as any person in the building) and Joe Schoen (who Mike is really down on after Hard Knocks).

Mike believes Belichick or any good head coach would be hesitant to sign on with the Giants unless John Mara was willing to allow the new guy to shake things up from top to bottom (which Mike seems to indicate is unlikely).

Mike feels until there is accountability and responsibility from top to bottom, the Giants will continue to struggle.

Admittedly, I'm not a Lombardi fan or a
follower.

I do agree that the GM needs to be someone strong enough to push back against Mara and run the organization as it needs to be. I think Schoen is capable and is doing just that.

Quote from: T200 on November 11, 2024, 05:20:18 PMAdmittedly, I'm not a Lombardi fan or a
follower.

I do agree that the GM needs to be someone strong enough to push back against Mara and run the organization as it needs to be. I think Schoen is capable and is doing just that.

Tim,

This goes far beyond Daniel Jones.  @kartanoman and I has talked about guys like Ronnie Barnes hurting the organization.  Now we have a report confirming what we have been speculating for years

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 12, 2024, 06:26:56 AMTim,

This goes far beyond Daniel Jones.  @kartanoman and I has talked about guys like Ronnie Barnes hurting the organization.  Now we have a report confirming what we have been speculating for years

Who said anything about Jones?   

I agree with Lombardi on all three.

Schoen is nice guy but dont think he's the answer.

Barnes is a dinosaur.

John Mara needs to check in and can offer opinion but a GM needs not to be influenced by it.

Quote from: T200 on November 12, 2024, 06:54:47 AMWho said anything about Jones?   

Tim,

I will confess, not that much.  I was having trouble sleeping and at 4 in the morning, it occurred to me the point I made to you.  After years of being on a nearly one-man campaign to hold Ronnie Barnes accountable for his poor job performance, I finally had some solid proof to support my claims.  I hope @Painter listens to what Mike has to say because he has criticized me for years for my crusade.   Clearly, Mike takes to someone in the organization, as information like parking spots is not readily available.

My guess is that Mike spoke to a frustrated Brian Daboll, who is friends with Mike.   No doubt, Brian is frustrated by having to deal with more injury problems than his coaching counterparts and the untouchable nature of Ronnie "Ring of Honor" Barnes.  Mike never reports what he knows, as if he were one of those insider reporters.  Rather he talks while knowing what he knows and gives hints.   I don't think it was an accident that video guy and trainer (Ronnie's root job) were given as examples of positions with no accountability.

On a side note, since I am talking to you.  I just listened to some of Pat Leonard's podcast.  He mentioned that he thought Kurt Warner was very biased, going out of his way to blame Daniel Jones for everything.  He likened it to last year's Greg Olsen ripping into Wink Martindale even though the defense was playing well that day.   One has to wonder if that is part of the NYG PR strategy.   They meet with the broadcasters during the week of preparation.   They may put a bug in the ear of an analyst of who they would like them to scapegoat.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 12, 2024, 08:21:58 AMTim,

I will confess, not that much.  I was having trouble sleeping and at 4 in the morning, it occurred to me the point I made to you.  After years of being on a nearly one-man campaign to hold Ronnie Barnes accountable for his poor job performance, I finally had some solid proof to support my claims.  I hope @Painter listens to what Mike has to say because he has criticized me for years for my crusade.   Clearly, Mike takes to someone in the organization, as information like parking spots is not readily available.

My guess is that Mike spoke to a frustrated Brian Daboll, who is friends with Mike.   No doubt, Brian is frustrated by having to deal with more injury problems than his coaching counterparts and the untouchable nature of Ronnie "Ring of Honor" Barnes.  Mike never reports what he knows, as if he were one of those insider reporters.  Rather he talks while knowing what he knows and gives hints.   I don't think it was an accident that video guy and trainer (Ronnie's root job) were given as examples of positions with no accountability.

On a side note, since I am talking to you.  I just listened to some of Pat Leonard's podcast.  He mentioned that he thought Kurt Warner was very biased, going out of his way to blame Daniel Jones for everything.  He likened it to last year's Greg Olsen ripping into Wink Martindale even though the defense was playing well that day.   One has to wonder if that is part of the NYG PR strategy.   They meet with the broadcasters during the week of preparation.   They may put a bug in the ear of an analyst of who they would like them to scapegoat.

Rich,

I don't doubt the negative impact Ronnie Barnes has had on this roster for decades. I don't have the information that you do so I can't comment one way or the other.

Regarding Warner and Olsen, it seems kinda conspiracy theory-ish.

My point about Schoen pushing back was all-encompassing.

Quote from: T200 on November 12, 2024, 08:31:52 AMRich,

I don't doubt the negative impact Ronnie Barnes has had on this roster for decades. I don't have the information that you do so I can't comment one way or the other.

Regarding Warner and Olsen, it seems kinda conspiracy theory-ish.

My point about Schoen pushing back was all-encompassing.

I can't speak on Olsen, but I can speak on Warner.  Warner showed a clear negative bias toward DJ, as witnessed by Pat and me (and I even provided you an example by not talking about Tracy's drop that led to an INT).   I will agree the idea that the PR people set up the announcers, is speculative/conspiracy theorist.

As for Barnes, the day the team pushes him out against his desires is the day this team starts to get serious about winning.  I say against his desires because at his age (he's in his early 70s) he may just retire on his own to enjoy the vast wealth he has accumulated over the years (he has made a fortune in the rehab business playing on his reputation as the Giants head trainer).

I did not find anything Warner said as being biased or untrue. Only die hard Jones supporters would think so. Like how can a color guy criticize the great Daniel Jones. Has to be a conspiracy or underlying reasons.
Let's see , even Troy Aikman criticized him on the air. So it is 2 SB winning QBs and HOFers yet some here know better.

Quote from: LennG on November 12, 2024, 10:58:58 AMI did not find anything Warner said as being biased or untrue. Only die hard Jones supporters would think so. Like how can a color guy criticize the great Daniel Jones. Has to be a conspiracy or underlying reasons.
Let's see , even Troy Aikman criticized him on the air. So it is 2 SB winning QBs and HOFers yet some here know better.

Pat Leonard just said the same thing.  I guess Pat Leonard must be a "die hard Jones supporter" 

Quote from: Philosophers on November 12, 2024, 07:00:17 AMI agree with Lombardi on all three.

Schoen is nice guy but dont think he's the answer.

Barnes is a dinosaur.

John Mara needs to check in and can offer opinion but a GM needs not to be influenced by it.

He's not going to sell the team, but one thing Mara could do that would allay some concerns is get out of the building.  Limit himself to a half hour or hour meeting with Schoen every week.  But he'd never do that either.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on November 12, 2024, 12:03:27 PMHe's not going to sell the team, but one thing Mara could do that would allay some concerns is get out of the building.  Limit himself to a half hour or hour meeting with Schoen every week.  But he'd never do that either.

In yesterday's presser, Brian Daboll had this to say:

QuoteQ: The quarterback position is a different beast, right? It's a lot of money, it's a big percent of the cap. When you have something like that, is that something that ownership needs to sign off on if you decide to make a decision there and move on?

BRIAN DABOLL: I've said this before, (Senior Vice President and General Manager) Joe (Schoen) and I communicate with our ownership group on a daily basis. Not just about the quarterback, but about every position. So, there's good communication there. We'll do what we normally do. If there are any changes, regardless of the position, we'll always communicate.

Q: It doesn't work any different than that? I'm sure you have freedom to make line-up changes regularly. Does that change with the quarterback position?

BRIAN DABOLL: No, even when we make line-up changes or there's things that come up, we're always in constant communication. Myself, (Senior Vice President and General Manager) Joe (Schoen), and ownership. I think that's very important and healthy for the organization.

Daily interaction with the management team seems a bit over the top.  In addition, Mara should have all operational aspects of the team (including things like media and video) all ultimately reporting to Joe Schoen.

When Lombardi answers who is running the Giants, the answer should be Either Joe Schoen or Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll.

Any answer that includes John Mara or Ronnie Barnes is the WRONG answer.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 12, 2024, 12:11:26 PMIn yesterday's presser, Brian Daboll had this to say:

Daily interaction with the management team seems a bit over the top.  In addition, Mara should have all operational aspects of the team (including things like media and video) all ultimately reporting to Joe Schoen.

When Lombardi answers who is running the Giants, the answer should be Either Joe Schoen or Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll.

Any answer that includes John Mara or Ronnie Barnes is the WRONG answer.

Daboll spoke about communication and keeping ownership in the loop. Mara may offer a comment or opinion or ask questions, but it doesn't mean he's running the show. QB however, is a decision that would require Ownership to be on board, and that would likely apply to most all the teams.

Quote from: Ed Vette on November 12, 2024, 12:22:18 PMDaboll spoke about communication and keeping ownership in the loop. Mara may offer a comment or opinion or ask questions, but it doesn't mean he's running the show. QB however, is a decision that would require Ownership to be on board, and that would likely apply to most all the teams.

Ed,

I can't disagree with the points made.  I think what bothered me most about Daboll's comments is that he seemed to imply that even lineup changes run past ownership.  That struck me as micro-managing.

Plus, at least HCs feel like there are not enough minutes in the day.  That's why many of them sleep in their offices sometimes or often.   Spending time each day to discuss the state of the team down to at least has to feel somewhat a waste of time for the HC (and maybe the GM).  We also witnessed on Hard Knocks that these are not just situational reports but rather discussions with the owner giving his input.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 12, 2024, 12:30:39 PMEd,

I can't disagree with the points made.  I think what bothered me most about Daboll's comments is that he seemed to imply that even lineup changes run past ownership.  That struck me as micro-managing.

Plus, at least HCs feel like there are not enough minutes in the day.  That's why many of them sleep in their offices sometimes or often.   Spending time each time to discuss the state of the team down to at least has to feel somewhat a waste of time for the HC (and maybe the GM).  We also witnessed on Hard Knocks that these are not just situational reports but rather discussions with the owner giving his input.

It should be a meeting between Daboll and Schoen, because there should be good communication between them, and thats healthy. Remember the issues with Gettleman and Judge? It could be a phone call, or a stop by the office for 5 minutes. I think once a week they have a meeting that includes Mara and whoever else is necessary. Schoen would be in daily communication with Mara. I think it's a good thing because the Owner gets a sense for why decisions are made and the challenges they face. When they stop talking, it becomes dysfunctional. Remember they're all in the same building. I don't believe they run to Mara with every little decision as it can be interpreted.

When I worked in a corporate environment with the Owner who was very involved, we had an hour roundtable meeting every Monday afternoon. Anything that came up during the week that was of any significance, I took in a partner if it pertained to their area, such as Human Resources, Operations, Merchandising VP's or Directors. I was also able to pick up the phone and call the Chairman or walk into his office if the door was open. Never for the minutiae. I'm sure there is a lot of crap that just stays within the coaching staff. However, open lines of communication to me seems like a well run organization, if it's not autocratic.