Big Blue Huddle

I found this post from BBI I wanted to share it here.  This historical commentary matches well with the commentary I posted from Mike Lombardi (see the Lombardi thread for details)

Quote"The offense is broken."
"I'm not sure why it took us three years to find out Jerrel Jernigan can play"

And from that moment, the team died.

In 2012, coming off of a Superbowl win, the team faded down the stretch and missed the playoffs.

In 2013, the team collapsed. Gilbride was blamed and removed.
In 2014, because "the offense was broken", the team drafted a weapon (Beckham) instead of more solid building blocks (Aaron Donald or Zach Martin). Beckham broke some records, so the team pretended the season was successful even though the Giants sucked. We ultimately blamed Perry Fewell and got rid of him.
In 2015, the Giants sucked again. Coughlin was blamed and was removed.
In 2016, the Giants signed a bunch of mercenaries like Snacks and Jackrabbit and made the playoffs. And got flushed quickly by Green Bay.
In 2017, the Giants sucked and decided McAdoo and Reese were the culprits (for benching Eli for a game) and removed them.
In 2018, the Giants decided all Eli needed was a new weapon, so they drafted Barkley. The team sucked, and they decided Eli was to blame, and drafted a QB who they thought resembled Eli was much as possible.
In 2019, the Giants sucked with this new QB, decided Shurmur was the problem, and got rid of him.
In 2020, the Giants sucked, but the entire division sucked, so the Giants pretended they didn't suck.
In 2021, the Giants sucked. They initially blamed Jason Garrett and got rid of him. Then the bottom fell out, but they still wanted to keep Joe Judge until Judge went insane. Media pressure forced them to get rid of Judge and find an outside GM.
In 2022, the Giants sucked after a 6-1 start (though they did win a playoff game against an even bigger pretender), so the Giants once again pretended they didn't suck.
In 2023, the Giants sucked and blamed Saquon Barkley (who never should have been a Giant to begin with). They also blamed Wink Martindale, but details there are still messy.
In 2024, the Giants suck and now we're blaming Daniel Jones.

And in 2025, when this team sucks again, Daboll will be next up.

The end of the 2021 season was the only time I saw the media and many of the fanbase really train their sights on the biggest problem with the team - Mara and his feckless leadership. That did force the team to look outside for a GM, though to date, it looks like our GM is a figurehead who either kowtows to the Maras, or Mara simply hired a GM who is on the same page as he is.

But in all of these moves, when has the team ever honestly looked at itself and said "the entire operation stinks"?

https://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=651358

That summarizes 12 years of bad football 

Bound to be right from time to time or atleast twice 

Reese refused to build line and orchestrated Gilbride removal -  he deserved to be fired 

Jones is holding back offense and should be let go on out year 

Yes, we need a George Young who will rebuild the organization. Not just the team, but the organization.

I have been blaming Mara for almost 10 years.

I watched the full Schoen presser and came away pretty unimpressed.

Look, there's not much you can say when you're 2-8 that's going to make people feel better. Especially in year three. It was going to be a rough half hour for him no matter what.

Still, I felt like he was doing a lot of spin and spitting out mindless platitudes instead of saying realistic things. Telling a room full of reporters "we're really close" when you're 2-8 sounds absurd to me, and I think it did to everyone else too. Especially when you were 6-11 the year before. They were very bad last year, and the record would suggest they are getting worse, not better. The point about the games being close is silly. Many have not been, and of the ones that were, in most of them they were the clear worse team despite the score not being a blowout.

How many times did he mention that they have the youngest D in the league? Must have been at least three times, maybe four or five. Who cares? Why is that even relevant in year three of a build? In year three it should be 100% about current performance, not some 2-3 year outlook.

Even though he didn't actually articulate it, it was very clear to me from what he did say (and also what he didn't say) that Jones is a goner after this season and I'm pretty sure he won't play from here. In the past, he has generally said things like "Daniel is our starting QB", or "I would expect Daniel to start for us." He didn't do that this time, nor would he when pressed.

I also agree that he didn't go out of his way to defend Daboll. In fact, implicitly he was arguably saying Daboll wasn't pulling his weight, because Schoen repeatedly said the roster has all these good young players (hence the implication being that the coaching is bad).

I heard a lot of spin and platitudes from Schoen today with very little substance and very little articulation of any sort of plan. Disappointing, but not overly surprising at this point.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 12, 2024, 07:19:21 PMI watched the full Schoen presser and came away pretty unimpressed.

Look, there's not much you can say when you're 2-8 that's going to make people feel better. Especially in year three. It was going to be a rough half hour for him no matter what.

Still, I felt like he was doing a lot of spin and spitting out mindless platitudes instead of saying realistic things. Telling a room full of reporters "we're really close" when you're 2-8 sounds absurd to me, and I think it did to everyone else too. Especially when you were 6-11 the year before. They were very bad last year, and the record would suggest they are getting worse, not better. The point about the games being close is silly. Many have not been, and of the ones that were, in most of them they were the clear worse team despite the score not being a blowout.

How many times did he mention that they have the youngest D in the league? Must have been at least three times, maybe four or five. Who cares? Why is that even relevant in year three of a build? In year three it should be 100% about current performance, not some 2-3 year outlook.

Even though he didn't actually articulate it, it was very clear to me from what he did say (and also what he didn't say) that Jones is a goner after this season and I'm pretty sure he won't play from here. In the past, he has generally said things like "Daniel is our starting QB", or "I would expect Daniel to start for us." He didn't do that this time, nor would he when pressed.

I also agree that he didn't go out of his way to defend Daboll. In fact, implicitly he was arguably saying Daboll wasn't pulling his weight, because Schoen repeatedly said the roster has all these good young players (hence the implication being that the coaching is bad).

I heard a lot of spin and platitudes from Schoen today with very little substance and very little articulation of any sort of plan. Disappointing, but not overly surprising at this point.

I have to disagree.  When you have 5 losses by 8 or less.  The Cincy game was 10 but a VERY late TD by Cincy.  Now, then consider their QB is the worst starter on the team?  Yeah, I would agree with Schoen they are close.   Some may say you are not close if you dont have a QB, and that is fine to think that.  I still stand by if they had a QB who was even slightly "below average" by NFL standards, they are in the play-offs.  A QB who was "good" by NFL standards, they are contender as a dark horse.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 12, 2024, 07:19:21 PMI watched the full Schoen presser and came away pretty unimpressed.

Look, there's not much you can say when you're 2-8 that's going to make people feel better. Especially in year three. It was going to be a rough half hour for him no matter what.

Still, I felt like he was doing a lot of spin and spitting out mindless platitudes instead of saying realistic things. Telling a room full of reporters "we're really close" when you're 2-8 sounds absurd to me, and I think it did to everyone else too. Especially when you were 6-11 the year before. They were very bad last year, and the record would suggest they are getting worse, not better. The point about the games being close is silly. Many have not been, and of the ones that were, in most of them they were the clear worse team despite the score not being a blowout.

How many times did he mention that they have the youngest D in the league? Must have been at least three times, maybe four or five. Who cares? Why is that even relevant in year three of a build? In year three it should be 100% about current performance, not some 2-3 year outlook.

Even though he didn't actually articulate it, it was very clear to me from what he did say (and also what he didn't say) that Jones is a goner after this season and I'm pretty sure he won't play from here. In the past, he has generally said things like "Daniel is our starting QB", or "I would expect Daniel to start for us." He didn't do that this time, nor would he when pressed.

I also agree that he didn't go out of his way to defend Daboll. In fact, implicitly he was arguably saying Daboll wasn't pulling his weight, because Schoen repeatedly said the roster has all these good young players (hence the implication being that the coaching is bad).

I heard a lot of spin and platitudes from Schoen today with very little substance and very little articulation of any sort of plan. Disappointing, but not overly surprising at this point.

Good summary


It remind me of some of the Jerry Reese sales pitches.  Seems this organization inspires this sort of behavior by the GM

Quote from: coggs on November 12, 2024, 07:33:22 PMI have to disagree.  When you have 5 losses by 8 or less.  The Cincy game was 10 but a VERY late TD by Cincy.  Now, then consider their QB is the worst starter on the team?  Yeah, I would agree.  I still stand by if they had a QB who was even slightly "below average" by NFL standards, they are in the play-offs.  A QB who was "good" by NFL standards, they are contender as a dark horse.

This sort of thinking is what inspired Parcells to say - you are what your record says you are

Quote from: coggs on November 12, 2024, 07:33:22 PMI have to disagree.  When you have 5 losses by 8 or less.  The Cincy game was 10 but a VERY late TD by Cincy.  Now, then consider their QB is the worst starter on the team?  Yeah, I would agree.  I still stand by if they had a QB who was even slightly "below average" by NFL standards, they are in the play-offs.  A QB who was "good" by NFL standards, they are contender as a dark horse.

Which part do you disagree with though? Are you saying it's credible for the GM of a team that is 8-19 in its last 27 games to say the team is "really close"?

Also, you appear to be saying their terrible record is 100% the QB's fault. Schoen repeatedly said that wasn't the case throughout the 26 minutes. So you can't possibly buy everything he was saying.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 12, 2024, 07:19:21 PMHow many times did he mention that they have the youngest D in the league? Must have been at least three times, maybe four or five. Who cares? Why is that even relevant in year three of a build? In year three it should be 100% about current performance, not some 2-3 year outlook.

Good post and good point on the quote above. I haven't seen the press conference yet but I'm assuming Schoen didn't qualify his comments about the defense by mentioning the core 3 (Dex, Burns, and Okereke) are not young. If anything, Okereke is moving past his prime and who knows how long Dex can play at this level at 350 lbs. The defense still needs a lot of work, particularly if Banks doesn't straighten out.

Jeff,

Your point about the youngest defense in year 3 goes along with what has really hit me recently.  2024 was this regimes 3rd draft and the first one that has people are excited about mid-way through a season.  We have seen some flashes and a couple of good players in the two previous drafts, but this year there is solid contributions from most of the class. 

I am extremely happy about that but do have to wonder if this draft is just an aberration or is more along the lines of what we can expect in the future.  I  am not expecting every draft to produce 4th rounders that are solid starters either.

By year 3 with or without Jones I expected the team would not be worse.

 

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 12, 2024, 07:48:08 PMWhich part do you disagree with though? Are you saying it's credible for the GM of a team that is 8-19 in its last 27 games to say the team is "really close"?

Also, you appear to be saying their terrible record is 100% the QB's fault. Schoen repeatedly said that wasn't the case throughout the 26 minutes. So you can't possibly buy everything he was saying.

He is not going to throw Jones under the bus like that.  Anyone with eyeballs can see it.  I was listening as I was sitting in traffic due to an overturned truck on the Verazzano and at least 3 times I said, "he is not going to answer that..."  Like when one of them asked about how they handled the QB position in the off-season ala not signing Wilson.

Daboll and Schoen get another season but the question will be what constitutes good enough next year for them to stick around beyond that?  Hard to say when we have no idea what the QB situation is going to be. 

Quote from: uconnjack8 on November 12, 2024, 08:20:07 PMJeff,

Your point about the youngest defense in year 3 goes along with what has really hit me recently.  2024 was this regimes 3rd draft and the first one that has people are excited about mid-way through a season.  We have seen some flashes and a couple of good players in the two previous drafts, but this year there is solid contributions from most of the class. 

I am extremely happy about that but do have to wonder if this draft is just an aberration or is more along the lines of what we can expect in the future.  I  am not expecting every draft to produce 4th rounders that are solid starters either.

By year 3 with or without Jones I expected the team would not be worse.

 

This is their 3rd draft, but arguably the first with his whole scouting operation fully in place.  Certainly in year 1 he was stuck with the old guard scouting.  He made changes in time for year 2 but it's hard to overhaul a whole scouting department in one year.  Next year's draft will give us a better idea if they've really improved in this area or it is a fluke. 

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 12, 2024, 07:19:21 PMI watched the full Schoen presser and came away pretty unimpressed.

Look, there's not much you can say when you're 2-8 that's going to make people feel better. Especially in year three. It was going to be a rough half hour for him no matter what.

Still, I felt like he was doing a lot of spin and spitting out mindless platitudes instead of saying realistic things. Telling a room full of reporters "we're really close" when you're 2-8 sounds absurd to me, and I think it did to everyone else too. Especially when you were 6-11 the year before. They were very bad last year, and the record would suggest they are getting worse, not better. The point about the games being close is silly. Many have not been, and of the ones that were, in most of them they were the clear worse team despite the score not being a blowout.

How many times did he mention that they have the youngest D in the league? Must have been at least three times, maybe four or five. Who cares? Why is that even relevant in year three of a build? In year three it should be 100% about current performance, not some 2-3 year outlook.

Even though he didn't actually articulate it, it was very clear to me from what he did say (and also what he didn't say) that Jones is a goner after this season and I'm pretty sure he won't play from here. In the past, he has generally said things like "Daniel is our starting QB", or "I would expect Daniel to start for us." He didn't do that this time, nor would he when pressed.

I also agree that he didn't go out of his way to defend Daboll. In fact, implicitly he was arguably saying Daboll wasn't pulling his weight, because Schoen repeatedly said the roster has all these good young players (hence the implication being that the coaching is bad).

I heard a lot of spin and platitudes from Schoen today with very little substance and very little articulation of any sort of plan. Disappointing, but not overly surprising at this point.

I too came away unimpressed. I feel there wasn't much to talk about so not much to say. When he said they are close, only logical thing I can think of is they feel with another QB and offseason they can be back in the hunt. But he can't really say it. I could be wrong though.