Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 13, 2024, 02:50:06 PMBenching DJ allows us to test the assumption that DJ "is the main culprit" or the main cause of their 2-8 record.  We have removed the problem, so surely there should be some expectations for victories against a pretty weak schedule in the remaining 7 games.  We get a chance to see what Schoen and Daboll have built after 3 years and a slew of high draft picks (and spotted McKinney, Barkley, Dex, A. Thomas, and Julian Love)

I think you're leaving out a major part of the the situation. It's not just about removing Jones. It's about upgrading the play of the QB regardless of the name. There is no QB upgrade on the roster, thus, you will not get a determination on what Schoen and Daboll have constructed until a better QB is on the roster.

I'm not attacking you. This situation feels like a strawman being constructed that will look sort of like this:

"Now that Jones has been benched for X number of games, we still haven't won. So maybe Jones wasn't the problem after all."

DJ is still the main culprit ON OFFENSE. A better QB will bear that out.

I'm sure you'll say that that isn't what you're doing. For the record, I'm saying that's what it appears to be from my vantage point.

Quote from: T200 on November 13, 2024, 03:05:55 PMI think you're leaving out a major part of the the situation. It's not just about removing Jones. It's about upgrading the play of the QB regardless of the name. There is no QB upgrade on the roster, thus, you will not get a determination on what Schoen and Daboll have constructed until a better QB is on the roster.

I'm not attacking you. This situation feels like a strawman being constructed that will look sort of like this:

"Now that Jones has been benched for X number of games, we still haven't won. So maybe Jones wasn't the problem after all."

DJ is still the main culprit ON OFFENSE. A better QB will bear that out.

I'm sure you'll say that that isn't what you're doing. For the record, I'm saying that's what it appears to be from my vantage point.

Strawman?  Reading your post, my first thought is why are Schoen and Daboll given a free pass for not having a better QB than a broken Daniel Jones on the roster especially as Jones was injury to start the 2024 NFL calendar year?


"Now that Jones has been benched for X number of games, we still haven't won. So maybe Jones wasn't the problem after all. So maybe Jones isn't the only person who should lose his job because of the team's two consecutive seasons of abject failure"

Fixed it for you 

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 13, 2024, 08:07:02 AMI hope this is the case. This will allow the final 7 games to identify the other problems

It's pretty sad when a large majority of a team discussion board were able to identify the shortcomings a year or two before all these so called experts and professionals.

Actually it's real sad.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 13, 2024, 03:10:30 PMStrawman?  Reading your post, my first thought is why are Schoen and Daboll given a free pass for not having a better QB than a broken Daniel Jones on the roster especially as Jones was injury to start the 2024 NFL calendar year?


"Now that Jones has been benched for X number of games, we still haven't won. So maybe Jones wasn't the problem after all. So maybe Jones isn't the only person who should lose his job because of the team's two consecutive seasons of abject failure"

Fixed it for you 

The first bolded quote is your assumption. I don't know of anyone giving them a free pass. I know I've stated why I think they didn't bring in someone better than both Jones and Lock.

Sure, Schoen and Daboll could be fired. Doesn't that continue the instability merry-go-round that dysfunctional organizations are known for? Or, maybe they could stop the cycle, exercise some patience, block out all the outside noise, let people do the jobs they're hired for, and see what happens. Double-digit years of futility don't get remedied in 2-3 years, especially for a first time GM/HC duo. It's been over 10 years of this crap. Expecting change in a short amount of time is just inviting disappointment.

It takes longer to build a house than to tear one down. The amount of destruction caused in 10 years is going to take some time to recover from.

Quote from: T200 on November 13, 2024, 03:17:47 PMThe first bolded quote is your assumption. I don't know of anyone giving them a free pass. I know I've stated why I think they didn't bring in someone better than both Jones and Lock.

Sure, Schoen and Daboll could be fired. Doesn't that continue the instability merry-go-round that dysfunctional organizations are known for? Or, maybe they could stop the cycle, exercise some patience, block out all the outside noise, let people do the jobs they're hired for, and see what happens. Double-digit years of futility don't get remedied in 2-3 years, especially for a first time GM/HC duo. It's been over 10 years of this crap. Expecting change in a short amount of time is just inviting disappointment.

It takes longer to build a house than to tear one down. The amount of destruction caused in 10 years is going to take some time to recover from.

Tim,

I literally qualified the first statement in bold as "my thought." 

Still, to the bigger point, why keep on a team if they failed to make the team objectively (using their draft position) better (and potentially worse) after 3 seasons, a slew of high draft picks, and spotted 6 excellent players in Love, L. Williams, Barkley, McKinney, Dex, A. Thomas?

Continuity really only works if there is good evidence to suggest that staying the course will pay off.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 13, 2024, 03:24:53 PMTim,

I literally qualified the first statement in bold as "my thought." 

Still, to the bigger point, why keep on a team if they failed to make the team objectively (using their draft position) better (and potentially worse) after 3 seasons, a slew of high draft picks, and spotted 6 excellent players in Love, L. Williams, Barkley, McKinney, Dex, A. Thomas?

Continuity really only works if there is good evidence to suggest that staying the course will pay off.

It really comes down to this being a football version of "What Would You Do?"

I stated my preference and gave reasons why. I understand your methods and decisions are different. And that's completely fine by me. I know very little compared to the guys who are actually paid to do this stuff. But, I see what I see and I add my two cents, which in some instances, I should probably keep to myself.

Quote from: kingm56 on November 13, 2024, 02:25:55 PMDo we really need to bench DJ to know we need to upgrade the right side of the oline and neee a complimentary back to Tracy?

king: Those are two clear positions of need. Pick another guy.  Hyatt, for example.

Suppose we put a QB out there who will throw a long pass to Hyatt in certain situations where he can run faster than the defender covering him and the safety is occupied elsewhere (these come up in every game).

If Hyatt is running even with the defender as the play develops, then he is OPEN. Jones almost never throws the ball in those situations, and even when he does, he usually throws it out-of-bounds. Someone needs to show more faith in Hyatt, IMO, not because he's so great (I have certain other serious reservations about him) but because some guys perform better when they know a QB will give them a chance.

Bob

Quote from: T200 on November 13, 2024, 03:28:43 PMIt really comes down to this being a football version of "What Would You Do?"

I stated my preference and gave reasons why. I understand your methods and decisions are different. And that's completely fine by me. I know very little compared to the guys who are actually paid to do this stuff. But, I see what I see and I add my two cents, which in some instances, I should probably keep to myself.

Fair enough, although I will confess that after reading your post, I am reminded of Mike Lombardi's belief of why the Giants have been a dysfunctional organization for over a decade due to a lack of accountability.

Quote from: Bob In PA on November 13, 2024, 03:31:52 PMking: Those are two clear positions of need. Pick another guy.  Hyatt, for example.

Suppose we put a QB out there who will throw a long pass to Hyatt in certain situations where he can run faster than the defender covering him and the safety is occupied elsewhere (these come up in every game).

If Hyatt is running even with the defender as the play develops, then he is OPEN. Jones almost never throws the ball in those situations, and even when he does, he usually throws it out-of-bounds. Someone needs to show more faith in Hyatt, IMO, not because he's so great (I have certain other serious reservations about him) but because some guys perform better when they know a QB will give him a chance.

Bob

Fair enough, Bob.  I just don't think we have a QB on the roster to test this theory.  We might have to wait until next season. 

Quote from: kingm56 on November 13, 2024, 08:03:32 PMFair enough, Bob.  I just don't think we have a QB on the roster to test this theory.  We might have to wait until next season. 

king: Aye, there's the rub (as Shakespeare once wrote). lol