Big Blue Huddle

Ryan Dunleavy
@rydunleavy
2 conflicting #Giants narratives I keep seeing/hearing

"Daniel Jones never should've been the No. 6 pick. That was a big mistake."

But then ...

"Giants have to draft their next QB this year. Take a shot even if it's supposed to be a weak class."

Um ... if that's the case, what do you think you might be saying in 2027-28?

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, same with teams and drafting Qbs.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 13, 2024, 02:59:25 PMRyan Dunleavy
@rydunleavy
2 conflicting #Giants narratives I keep seeing/hearing

"Daniel Jones never should've been the No. 6 pick. That was a big mistake."

But then ...

"Giants have to draft their next QB this year. Take a shot even if it's supposed to be a weak class."

Um ... if that's the case, what do you think you might be saying in 2027-28?

Ryan Dunleavy can go pound sand. I hate it when people take two and two and come up with 37. One has nothing to do with the other. It's an insult to our intelligence.

Regarding the "weak class" statement, who determines that? Based on what? At the end of the day, it's still someone's opinion, not fact.

If any GM/HC sees value and quality in a player, they will pick them. How it turns out can never be accurately predicted. Research and homework is done and a decision is made. All of this second-guessing and projecting is nauseating.

Quote from: T200 on November 13, 2024, 03:11:19 PMRyan Dunleavy can go pound sand. I hate it when people take two and two and come up with 37. One has nothing to do with the other. It's an insult to our intelligence.

Regarding the "weak class" statement, who determines that? Based on what? At the end of the day, it's still someone's opinion, not fact.

If any GM/HC sees value and quality in a player, they will pick them. How it turns out can never be accurately predicted. Research and homework is done and a decision is made. All of this second-guessing and projecting is nauseating.

Tim,

In fairness, on Twitter, I have seen many fan posts with variations of the message-  "the Giants need to draft a QB this draft even if it's not a strong QB class."   They expressed, "not a strong QB class." It is simply a qualifier concerning that even if the class isn't strong, they need to take the chance. 

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 13, 2024, 03:16:40 PMTim,

In fairness, on Twitter, I have seen many fan posts with variations of the message-  "the Giants need to draft a QB this draft even if it's not a strong QB class."   They expressed, "not a strong QB class." It is simply a qualifier concerning that even if the class isn't strong, they need to take the chance. 

We're all fans and entitled to our opinions. Doesn't mean they all hold the same value.

I'm sure some of those same fans suggesting drafting a QB, any QB, wanted one this past year too. I trust Schoen and Daboll. The QB has to be someone they believe they can work with that will elevate this offense and this team. Let them pick them and then hold them accountable if it doesn't work out. Jones was Mara's and Gettleman's pick. It's not fair handicap them with someone else's luggage and expect them to do something the previous guys couldn't do.

Quote from: T200 on November 13, 2024, 03:21:41 PMWe're all fans and entitled to our opinions. Doesn't mean they all hold the same value.

I'm sure some of those same fans suggesting drafting a QB, any QB, wanted one this past year too. I trust Schoen and Daboll. The QB has to be someone they believe they can work with that will elevate this offense and this team. Let them pick them and then hold them accountable if it doesn't work out. Jones was Mara's and Gettleman's pick. It's not fair handicap them with someone else's luggage and expect them to do something the previous guys couldn't do.

To the part in bold, you are only 1/3 correct.  In 2022 you were correct.  In 2023 and 2024, Daniel Jones was on the roster because of decisions made by Schoen and Daboll.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 13, 2024, 03:27:10 PMTo the part in bold, you are only 1/3 correct.  In 2022 you were correct.  In 2023 and 2024, Daniel Jones was on the roster because of decisions made by Schoen and Daboll.

My belief is that the decision to give Jones the new contract was heavily influenced by Mara and all the nuance that entails. It's been detailed enough here, so no need to rehash it.

Obviously, none of us will ever know the truth. The end of an error is upon is. Let us all rejoice and be glad. 

In my opinion it's okay to take a shot on a QB you love in the draft. The problem is when you force the franchise to live and die with that player for half a decade or more. Take a shot and draft a QB you love, but don't lower the bar in terms of performance. And don't allow yourself to imagine a level of skill that isn't there. When you do draft the player, be a bit skeptical and force the player to win you over with his on field performance. Don't hand him anything.

As for Daniel Jones specifically, he was a fatally flawed prospect in the draft. If you're slow to process, you are going to struggle in the NFL. Take a guy like that in the 4th round and see if he surprises you. If some other team wants to draft him in an earlier round, wish them well.

This draft evaluation from Todd McShay is perfectly articulated. He was right about everything and it's mind boggling that the Giants could fall in full bloom love with this prospect. What's even worse is the years of gaslighting and excuse making to explain away poor performance. They made a mistake. It happens. But they should've owned up to it years ago. Instead they launched a public relations campaign to attack anyone who didn't fall in line and pretend Jones was a good QB.

https://x.com/uSTADIUM/status/1856341008377634901?t=XV313BlDAzk0RbOj6LBGjQ&s=19

Quote from: T200 on November 13, 2024, 03:33:59 PMMy belief is that the decision to give Jones the new contract was heavily influenced by Mara and all the nuance that entails. It's been detailed enough here, so no need to rehash it.

Obviously, none of us will ever know the truth. The end of an error is upon is. Let us all rejoice and be glad. 

If Mara cared so much about retaining Daniel Jones, why did Mara allow Schoen and Daboll to pass on exercising DJ's 5th-year option?  It seems to me if I believed that Mara was that fond and attached to Daniel Jones, he would have pressed for the team to give him the 5th-year option (which, in hindsight, would have been a better move).

Quote from: Doc16LT56 on November 13, 2024, 03:36:19 PMIn my opinion it's okay to take a shot on a QB you love in the draft. The problem is when you force the franchise to live and die with that player for half a decade or more. Take a shot and draft a QB you love, but don't lower the bar in terms of performance. And don't allow yourself to imagine a level of skill that isn't there. When you do draft the player, be a bit skeptical and force the player to win you over with his on field performance. Don't hand him anything.

As for Daniel Jones specifically, he was a fatally flawed prospect in the draft. If you're slow to process, you are going to struggle in the NFL. Take a guy like that in the 4th round and see if he surprises you. If some other team wants to draft him in an earlier round, wish them well.

This draft evaluation from Todd McShay is perfectly articulated. He was right about everything and it's mind boggling that the Giants could fall in full bloom love with this prospect. What's even worse is the years of gaslighting and excuse making to explain away poor performance. They made a mistake. It happens. But they should've owned up to it years ago. Instead they launched a public relations campaign to attack anyone who didn't fall in line and pretend Jones was a good QB.

https://x.com/uSTADIUM/status/1856341008377634901?t=XV313BlDAzk0RbOj6LBGjQ&s=19

In my opinion, Jones wasn't fatally flawed; the organization that drafted him was.  They did everything humanly possible to screw up his development and shattered his confidence to the point of seeing ghosts, thanks to over half a decade of league-leading beatings, both physical and mental.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 13, 2024, 03:36:42 PMIf Mara cared so much about retaining Daniel Jones, why did Mara allow Schoen and Daboll to pass on exercising DJ's 5th-year option?  It seems to me if I believed that Mara was that fond and attached to Daniel Jones, he would have pressed for the team to give him the 5th-year option (which, in hindsight, would have been a better move).

Keeping Jones didn't require picking up the option, as we all saw.

An important piece in what I have been saying over the years regarding Mara's meddling is his *indirect* influence. His meddling is suggestive and not directive. A hundred pounds of feathers and a hundred pounds of bricks weigh the same.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 13, 2024, 03:36:42 PMIf Mara cared so much about retaining Daniel Jones, why did Mara allow Schoen and Daboll to pass on exercising DJ's 5th-year option?  It seems to me if I believed that Mara was that fond and attached to Daniel Jones, he would have pressed for the team to give him the 5th-year option (which, in hindsight, would have been a better move).

Yeah, I think this is pretty self-explanatory for anyone with leadership experience. You're not putting a new management team in place and immediately dictating their decision(s).

It's just not how it works.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 13, 2024, 03:36:42 PMIf Mara cared so much about retaining Daniel Jones, why did Mara allow Schoen and Daboll to pass on exercising DJ's 5th-year option?  It seems to me if I believed that Mara was that fond and attached to Daniel Jones, he would have pressed for the team to give him the 5th-year option (which, in hindsight, would have been a better move).

Up to that point, the Giants had literally no success with Jones. There was no logical argument to pick up the 5th year option or extend him. Then 2022 happened. They won a playoff game and were drafting 25th overall instead of drafting in the top 10 as I'm willing to bet most people expected. Suddenly, the choice was either re-sign Jones or let him walk and bring in a bridge QB until they were able to draft a replacement. They were stuck between a rock and a hard place after 2022. Had they won even just 6 or 7 games, they probably would have moved on from Jones.

Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on November 13, 2024, 03:50:07 PMYeah, I think this is pretty self-explanatory for anyone with leadership experience. You're not putting a new management team in place and immediately dictating their decision(s).

It's just not how it works.

Between my professional and volunteer lives I have nearly 60 years of management experience in a wide variety of fields.   A new manager is wise not to rock the boat until they fully know the waters.  So the reverse of what you said is more likely

Rich, I agree but there will be at least two good QB's at the top of this Draft. The Jones at six is so played out. He was the second best QB in that draft. The Giants needed a QB because Gettleman was an ego inflated moron who passed on two elite QBs in a solid draft class to draft a RB the prior year. There is no crystal ball on how a QB will have long term success in this league, but in my opinion, a lot of it has to do with how they are developed. How many great QB are on bad teams with lousy coaches and dysfunctional franchises?

I am very sure that if Eli was drafted by Gettleman, he would have failed just as Jones has.

But if they have solid tangibles and a few good intangibles then they have a fighting chance. I was very hopeful of Maye, Nix and Daniels and McCarthy falls into the Eli/Jones category of potential there but needs development. Maye and Nix are in good situations. Calib Williams has a boatload of talent but he has a weakness in his armor and he's in a bad situation. Mayfield and Darnold had talent but Mayfield had character issues and Darnold needed coaching. Both were in bad situations when then were drafted. Maybe their careers can be salvaged.

I had Jones in the same tier as Grier and Finley but I felt he had potential. It took me two years to realize that he was never going to be elite, but serviceable. He should be playing at the level of Goff by now. Now that kid lucked out.