Big Blue Huddle

https://x.com/queens_guy/status/1856306353792315742

"I don't know that anybody can say that anybody is safe in New York," Schefter said during an appearance on The Pat McAfee Show. "I don't know that anybody can say that anybody is safe when you're on track to have the No. 1 overall pick in the draft."

Schefter points out that Mara provided a similar vote of confidence for Ben McAdoo in 2017 before firing him, and then again with Joe Judge in 2021 before firing him.

Ultimately, all options are likely to be on the table if the team's ugly season continues.

"I think they're going to be looking at everything (this offseason) and I think anything is possible," Schefter said.

https://giantswire.usatoday.com/2024/11/12/nfl-insider-adam-schefter-dont-know-anybody-safe-new-york-giants/?taid=6735bc1dcad2960001f31031&utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=twitter

https://x.com/JustinPenik/status/1856872174390227052

I'm fine with that.

First overall pick
New GM
New HC
Hopefully New QB

Let's wipe the decks

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Quote from: Just_jimmy on November 14, 2024, 07:28:02 AMI'm fine with that.

First overall pick
New GM
New HC
Hopefully New QB

Let's wipe the decks

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

And a massive house cleaning of the entire 1925 Giants way

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 14, 2024, 07:14:48 AMhttps://x.com/JustinPenik/status/1856872174390227052

"Wanna know what that tells me? Joe Schoen's press conference was a success. Fan base is buying into putting it all on Jones."

Sorry, Justin. You're wrong. To try and distill it down to a single tweet doesn't paint you in a positive light, except to those who agree with you.

Maybe there's another option? Maybe folks DON'T see the press conference as a success but still support Schoen and Daboll. Maybe folks see Schoen and Daboll as part of the problem but recognize Jones has a been a problem for the organization years before they showed up on the scene. Maybe folks realize that there's a draft coming up where new players can be drafted, to include a new QB but there is no draft for GMs and HCs. Maybe folks realize it takes time to clean up a disaster such as the Giants and bouncing HCs every three years isn't the best approach.

Quote from: T200 on November 14, 2024, 08:14:42 AM"Wanna know what that tells me? Joe Schoen's press conference was a success. Fan base is buying into putting it all on Jones."

Sorry, Justin. You're wrong. To try and distill it down to a single tweet doesn't paint you in a positive light, except to those who agree with you.

Maybe there's another option? Maybe folks DON'T see the press conference as a success but still support Schoen and Daboll. Maybe folks see Schoen and Daboll as part of the problem but recognize Jones has a been a problem for the organization years before they showed up on the scene. Maybe folks realize that there's a draft coming up where new players can be drafted, to include a new QB but there is no draft for GMs and HCs. Maybe folks realize it takes time to clean up a disaster such as the Giants and bouncing HCs every three years isn't the best approach.

Tim,

Please explain how the Giants can't beat the supposed worst team in the league because of Daniel Jones, but they could win enough games to make the playoffs and even beat a 13-win team in the playoffs, not only with Daniel Jones but with Jones being a major reason they won.

Also, why even mention Penik. 


7. Address the argument instead of attacking the person making the argument. Ad hominem arguments are a clear sign of intellectual dishonesty. However, often times, the dishonesty is more subtle. For example, someone might make a token effort at debunking an argument and then turn significant attention to the person making the argument, relying on stereotypes, guilt-by-association, and innocent-sounding gotcha questions.


https://designmatrix.wordpress.com/2010/11/14/ten-signs-of-intellectual-honesty-2/

Canty also said Daboll should be fired after 4 games and that Daniel Jones had a better chance of staying. Maybe he's more concerned with being right than getting it right when it's clearly headed in the opposite direction...

Regardless, it's been talked about ad nauseum how the 2022 season was built on Saquon's back, a playoff victory against a terrible Vikings' defense--and the oft-ignored end to the season versus Philly where Jones was abysmal. Then the league adjusted to Daboll's smoke-and-mirrors offense necessary to maximize Jones's limited skill set, and now immediately attack downhill on the one-read QB.

I can get understand a position that says Daboll and Schoen should be fired as well, but Canty's reasoning is superficial at best from what I can tell.

Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on November 14, 2024, 08:23:31 AMCanty also said Daboll should be fired after 4 games and that Daniel Jones had a better chance of staying. Maybe he's more concerned with being right than getting it right when it's clearly headed in the opposite direction...

Regardless, it's been talked about ad nauseum how the 2022 season was built on Saquon's back, a playoff victory against a terrible Vikings' defense--and the oft-ignored end to the season versus Philly where Jones was abysmal. Then the league adjusted to Daboll's smoke-and-mirrors offense necessary to maximize Jones's limited skill set, and now immediately attack downhill on the one-read QB.

I can get understand a position that says Daboll and Schoen should be fired as well, but Canty's reasoning is superficial at best from what I can tell.

That is an interesting theory, but DJ's successful season under Pat Shurmur (albeit with rookie turnover issues) ruins it.   It wasn't like Daboll and Shurmur were running the same offense. 

Edit to add:  H-Town, your theory also requires the assumption that Schoen and Daboll knowingly gave a QB with a "limited skill set" a $40 million dollar-a-year contract.     What does that say of Schoen and Daboll's judgment and abilities?

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 14, 2024, 08:45:04 AMSchoen and Daboll knowingly gave a QB with a "limited skill set" a $40 million dollar-a-year contract.     What does that say of Schoen and Daboll's judgment and abilities?

This is my biggest issue with the regime. It's a was, in my opinion, a bad decision then and now it looks like a dreadful one. Whether that means they should both be canned, I'm not sure but this was a dreadful decision - whichever its sliced.

Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on November 14, 2024, 09:00:10 AMThis is my biggest issue with the regime. It's a was, in my opinion, a bad decision then and now it looks like a dreadful one. Whether that means they should both be canned, I'm not sure but this was a dreadful decision - whichever its sliced.

It's even worse, even if you are willing to entertain the idea that DJ is now broken, but this is still a terrible look for Schoen and Daboll.  Either they knowingly overpaid for a bad QB or they paid for a good QB and then broke him.  Either way that isn't the sort of resume/CV that one would want for the team selecting and developing the next quarterback.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 14, 2024, 08:23:15 AMTim,

Please explain how the Giants can't beat the supposed worst team in the league because of Daniel Jones, but they could win enough games to make the playoffs and even beat a 13-win team in the playoffs, not only with Daniel Jones but with Jones being a major reason they won.

Also, why even mention Penik. 

It doesn't matter, Rich. I've explained it several times. You ignore it and fall back to your viewpoint. It's cool.

I mentioned Penik because of his tweet.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 14, 2024, 08:45:04 AMThat is an interesting theory, but DJ's successful season under Pat Shurmur (albeit with rookie turnover issues) ruins it.  It wasn't like Daboll and Shurmur were running the same offense. 

Edit to add:  H-Town, your theory also requires the assumption that Schoen and Daboll knowingly gave a QB with a "limited skill set" a $40 million dollar-a-year contract.    What does that say of Schoen and Daboll's judgment and abilities?

Suffice it to say we disagree that Jones's rookie season "ruins" my analysis. No need to go down that road any further.

As to Schoen and Daboll, they gave him a deal premised on potential and Jones's ability to develop. Mara coming out during free agency negotiations pining about how the Giants ruined Daniel Jones certainly evinces where he wanted the Giants to land and we know Schoen and Daboll heard that (and likely more). The deal was obviously not a full-throated endorsement of Jones, as they gave themselves multiple off-ramps if that development didn't pan out--the first of which will be employed this off-season. They took a chance but at least hedged such that the Giants are not going to be crippled cap-wise after they cut DJ. I know some thought Schoen and Daboll found their franchise QB at that time, and a $40MM would have been a relative steal. But I think reasonable minds can come down with pretty different interpretations of Schoen / Daboll's decision to re-sign DJ and its more than fair to criticize committing yourself, even on a two-year basis, to a limited QB. Whether that means they can't be trusted to make decisions at all... again, reasonable minds can differ.

Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on November 14, 2024, 09:31:59 AMSuffice it to say we disagree that Jones's rookie season "ruins" my analysis. No need to go down that road any further.

As to Schoen and Daboll, they gave him a deal premised on potential and Jones's ability to develop. Mara coming out during free agency negotiations pining about how the Giants ruined Daniel Jones certainly evinces where he wanted the Giants to land and we know Schoen and Daboll heard that (and likely more). The deal was obviously not a full-throated endorsement of Jones, as they gave themselves multiple off-ramps if that development didn't pan out--the first of which will be employed this off-season. They took a chance but at least hedged such that the Giants are not going to be crippled cap-wise after they cut DJ. I know some thought Schoen and Daboll found their franchise QB at that time, and a $40MM would have been a relative steal. But I think reasonable minds can come down with pretty different interpretations of Schoen / Daboll's decision to re-sign DJ and its more than fair to criticize committing yourself, even on a two-year basis, to a limited QB. Whether that means they can't be trusted to make decisions at all... again, reasonable minds can differ.

DJ didn't start until week 3 but still through 24 TDs, sort of hard to dismiss that as unsuccessful especially for a rookie with no number one WR (or even a good receiver corps) and mediocre protection.


As to Schoen and Daboll, they gave him a deal premised on potential and Jones's ability to develop.

I completely agree with that statement.  Knowing more about DJ than anyone on the planet they saw franchise potential not a very limited QB who needed special schemes for him to be functional

Canty is 100% correct both the GM and HC need to be gone. Let's start with the GM the team made the playoffs in 2022 since that time the GM has managed to make the secondary worse by not resigning players. The best players on the team are still Gettleman players. This team has significantly gotten worse. The draft picks while some have shown promise like Tracey, Nabers majority have underperformed. His handling of DJ and Barkley contracts have been terrible. The team has totally regressed under his tenure.
Daboll is a horrible coach his tenure throughout the his entire NFL career hasn't been good. Asides from his time in Buffalo where he was OC and two of his seasons were outstanding. The arrival of Dorsey changed Allen's game and took it to another level. I happen to think Allen was just a good QB and was getting better and possibly just hitting his stride. Nothing to do with Daboll or Dorsey. Allen has continued to play well even after their departure. Daboll was made to look good as most of Allen's plays come off broken plays and him run and creating on his own to make things happen which again says a lot about Allen more than the coach.

As far as Daboll on the Giants he has been nothing but a failure. Player development hasn't been good, players have regressed under his tenure. Play calls haven't been good some calls have me shaking my head every time in red zone you get a gimmick play instead of just playing straight up they don't even attempt a pass into the end zone on most occasions. The QB gets some blame but not all. He is here as a QB whisperer a guru of some sort but he isn't and has never been. He has a list of QB failures he has destroyed more QBs than built up. His only claim to fame is Allen. Honestly speaking even if they move on from DJ do you want to see Daboll near the next QB they draft. I wouldn't want him anywhere near any QB. He has had multiple offensive coordinator gigs and his teams were never ranked high again asides from Buffalo they also sported the better defenses which tends to inflate offensive numbers. His offense before Buffalo has always been below average averaging 15-18 points a game. Let's not forget Daboll has tendency to throw coaches under the bus Wink and Kafka, both have gotten worse defense and offense.
Canty is absolutely right in want these two gone. They haven't done enough to improve the Giants in the three years they have been here.