Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Jclayton92 on November 14, 2024, 03:27:56 PMName a hot candidate that could replace Daboll right now that isn't Ben Johnson?

I'm not as down on Schoen and Daboll as everyone else. What has schoen failed at? Not trading Mckinney and Barkley? Besides that I think he's done well, and Daboll is a great coach imo. A qb that teammates believe can win lifts all tides. Everyone will play better knowing we can win, with Jones they know the result. With an average qb this is a 9 win team easy. Being anemic at qb causes the whole offense problems and the defense. I think you have to give them a chance with anyone but Jones.

I am not advocating for firing Schoen or Daboll, but it's hard to overlook that the team has gotten worse each of the last 2 years as they have added "their" players. 

This last draft class looks amazing.  The other two are mixed bags that lean toward mediocre.  Of course it's year 3 and draft classes should be given at least that long to truly evaluate them.

I'm still of the mindset that I would completely clean house.  Aside from a few good players very little has improved here.  Hyatt has been a bust and Nabers was a stupid pick for a team with so many glaring needs. 

IMO Nabers is the only 1st rounder they really nailed.  The future QB will appreciate him.

Quote from: T200 on November 14, 2024, 11:50:59 AMI'm good with that too. I think a lot of these newer QBs struggle because they're thrown in too quickly. Just because they come from NFL-ready or pro-style offenses in college, everything about the NFL game is faster.

Patience is key and letting a rookie sit for the first year is not a bad idea.

I'm old enough to remember when the conventional wisdom was that it took 5 years to develop an NFL QB.  Of course that was a different kind of QB - one who called his own plays.  But the CAP has made that untenable, and no QB calls his own plays.  Giving a QB a year, or even 2 doesn't seem unreasonable.

Quote from: uconnjack8 on November 14, 2024, 05:08:08 PMI am not advocating for firing Schoen or Daboll, but it's hard to overlook that the team has gotten worse each of the last 2 years as they have added "their" players. 

This last draft class looks amazing.  The other two are mixed bags that lean toward mediocre.  Of course it's year 3 and draft classes should be given at least that long to truly evaluate them.

Its also worth it to note that in draft year 1 it was with the prior regime's scouting structure and in draft year 2 he was still in the middle of redoing the scouting structure.  Year 4, as in year 3, will tell us whether year 3 was a fluke or was it a significant improvement in their scouting structure.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on November 14, 2024, 10:12:04 PMI'm old enough to remember when the conventional wisdom was that it took 5 years to develop an NFL QB.  Of course that was a different kind of QB - one who called his own plays.  But the CAP has made that untenable, and no QB calls his own plays.  Giving a QB a year, or even 2 doesn't seem unreasonable.

I know it would never happen, but a mandatory rookie redshirt for QBs would improve the overall QB play throughout the league, IMO.

Quote from: T200 on November 14, 2024, 10:23:31 PMI know it would never happen, but a mandatory rookie redshirt for QBs would improve the overall QB play throughout the league, IMO.

I agree but I don't think they can make it mandatory. Maybe a salary cap incentive to keep rookie QBs off the field. Don't count the first year against the cap for those QBs who are redshirted. I don't know but it's something worth thinking about.

Quote from: Doc16LT56 on November 14, 2024, 10:41:49 PMI agree but I don't think they can make it mandatory. Maybe a salary cap incentive to keep rookie QBs off the field. Don't count the first year against the cap for those QBs who are redshirted. I don't know but it's something worth thinking about.

The incentive is a good addition.

Quote from: Doc16LT56 on November 14, 2024, 10:41:49 PMI agree but I don't think they can make it mandatory. Maybe a salary cap incentive to keep rookie QBs off the field. Don't count the first year against the cap for those QBs who are redshirted. I don't know but it's something worth thinking about.

This is interesting... but almost backwards? It allows you more cap flexibility to build a team during the year you're not using your rookie QB. So it seems more to help in a season where the drafting team is attempting to win now, but also one in which they drafted a 1st round QB. (The Falcons almost immediately come to mind, but I tend to think this is somewhat uncommon). But as to the backwards part, the season you begin to use the sophomore QB, that cap flexibility is gone. So unless you got a few guys on 1-year deals in the red-shirt season, you may end up having to cut some fat because you now just added $10MM+ to your cap when your now 2nd year QB comes online.

Alternatively, they you could do a straight up draft pick: if you sit your rookie QB for a full season, you get a compensatory 3rd round pick after that year (or something to that effect). In that situation, you're giving the team potentially more ammunition to aid the QB in the season he's actually playing (sophomore campaign), instead of flexibility to add players in a year which the draft QB isn't contributing.

Interesting idea overall though.

Watching the game Eagles vs Commanders. Hearing the Eagles fans saying thank you Giants for Barkley. If that isn't reason enough to fire Schoen. I don't know what is. He built the damn Eagles for a championship run if they win another Super Bowl he should be shown the door. Same for Daboll.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on November 14, 2024, 03:27:56 PMName a hot candidate that could replace Daboll right now that isn't Ben Johnson?

I'm not as down on Schoen and Daboll as everyone else. What has schoen failed at? Not trading Mckinney and Barkley? Besides that I think he's done well, and Daboll is a great coach imo. A qb that teammates believe can win lifts all tides. Everyone will play better knowing we can win, with Jones they know the result. With an average qb this is a 9 win team easy. Being anemic at qb causes the whole offense problems and the defense. I think you have to give them a chance with anyone but Jones.

" Daboll is a great coach " . Can you explain your opinion please ? Daboll might fall into the Bill Arnsbarger syndrome- an excellent coordinator but a poor head coach.

Would love Ben Johnson , but he is not coming here if anywhere. Also, do not know if he would be an excellent HC. Everyone is looking for the next Sean McVay or Kyle Shanahan , but Daboll is not one of them.

I do have trouble thinking of a coach to replace Daboll. The only one that came to mind might be Mike Vrabel

Quote from: Jclayton92 on November 14, 2024, 03:27:56 PMName a hot candidate that could replace Daboll right now that isn't Ben Johnson?

I'm not as down on Schoen and Daboll as everyone else. What has schoen failed at? Not trading Mckinney and Barkley? Besides that I think he's done well, and Daboll is a great coach imo. A qb that teammates believe can win lifts all tides. Everyone will play better knowing we can win, with Jones they know the result. With an average qb this is a 9 win team easy. Being anemic at qb causes the whole offense problems and the defense. I think you have to give them a chance with anyone but Jones.

Bill Belichick and/or Vrbrel

Frankly, with this organization's dysfunction, the team needs an experienced, strong coach who can not only coach but can fix the team's broken culture.

Changing QB won't fix the dropped passes, excessive penalties, bad habits, and mental errors

Quote from: nb587 on November 14, 2024, 03:49:47 PMYou fire a GM coming off a 4 star draft?  That's not smart.  That flea flicker play that probably should have been a TD caused Curt Warner, who rarely criticizes a QB to come down hard on Jones.  Tell me, if you're Dexter or Burns or anyone on the D and you see a QB like Jones not make plays that any decent QB should make, does that not affect the entire team performance?  The Giants OL, prior to the Thomas injury, went from horrible to decent with the addition of average players.  Even an average QB would make a huge impact. 

A GM's job is to build a talented roster.  Most roster rankings had the Giants roster ranked 30-32 entering the season.  The 2-8 record does nothing to suggest the rankers were wrong in their assessment of this team's lack of talent.  Remember, all teams have talent; it's a comparison that matters.  3 years of roster building and the team still has one of the least talented rosters in the entire NFL