Big Blue Huddle

Atlanta has to move on from Cousins as they drafted Penix #1. Would you trade our #1 pick to Atlanta for him? If we did, we could have a decent enough QB for the next 5 years and then draft a QB in a lower round for suture consideration.
I don't know draft day values, but Cousins can win and isn't that the point?

Great question but I dont think you'd have to give up a 1st.  He's probably as good as he'll ever be and he does have some years left.  Got plenty of NFL experience.  It can bridge Gmen for say 3 years til a rookie but also build more of the team's quality.

A top 5 selection for a B Tier QB who will be 37 next year? Absolutely not

Quote from: MrGap92 on November 16, 2024, 12:09:44 PMA top 5 selection for a B Tier QB who will be 37 next year? Absolutely not

Moreover, a QB who has won exactly 1 playoff game in 13 years...no thank you. 

They would win some games but Cousins has never gone all the way and I don't see him as a permanent solution. There's a potential out in 2026 with a 15mm Cap Hit, otherwise he's 40mm in 25, and 58mm in 26 and 27. Tough to build a team around that, especially adding in the 22mm in Jones' Dead Cap hit in 2025.

No great interest from me, but that's not to say trading for Cousins is the worst idea. He'll be 37, which is clearly old, but he only has three years left on his contract and only $12.5mm in dead cap in the final year. Plus he can still play. He seems like a pretty disciplined guy, and he's been durable, so I have no reason to think he can't play another 1-2 years after this at a similar level to what he has played at.

What I definitely wouldn't do is give up what is very likely to be a top five overall pick and could be the first pick overall in the draft for Kirk Cousins. At most I'm giving up a 2. I'm not even sure you'd need to do that.

With any considerations like this, you have to ask yourself what it is you're trying to accomplish. I am firmly of the view that the Giants would not come close to winning a Super Bowl with a twilight years Kirk Cousins (he has been unable to go far in the postseason in his prime on much better teams). So what would be the point of this? If it's just to bring some stability and respectability to the franchise, I can understand why people would want that, but do we really want to be parting with premium draft capital for that, or should we be using that draft capital to try to find foundational pieces, including a long term option at QB?

What QB would we be better off with than Cousins over the next 2 years?  Doubt a rookie would be plus Cousins bridges us to a rookie we may really like.  Assume we trade a 2nd or 3rd.

No, because I don't care about wins and losses (ostensibly why you're acquiring Cousins) in a transitional year to a new QB. And especially not for impact draft capital.

Quote from: Philosophers on November 16, 2024, 12:55:00 PMWhat QB would we be better off with than Cousins over the next 2 years?  Doubt a rookie would be plus Cousins bridges us to a rookie we may really like.  Assume we trade a 2nd or 3rd.

If we trade for Cousins, we most likely won't be picking in the top 10 for the next two seasons. So forget about any shot at Arch or any other elite QB prospect during that period.

If the above is wrong and we actually still are picking in the top 5 or 10 with Cousins as our QB, then by definition it was a terrible trade. If he's not going to make us at least a .500 or better team, then it would be stupid to give up draft capital for him and pay his big salary.

I just struggle to see how doing this fits in with any sort of macro long term planning for this franchise. To me, it does little more than make us watchable/serviceable for a couple years. As a fan, I want our front office and ownership to have bigger aspirations than that. Even if it means being patient.

So are you willing to be terrible for the next year also, just for a shot at Arch?

All I know is I want to win games and be competitive for the next few years. AND, ask so many teams if drafting a top QB makes them a success. For every to[p QB there are several others drafted high that are flops. With the Giants drafting record, we might just screw that one up also.
I mentioned a #1, as I didn't know Cousins was that old, but for a #2 or even a #3, I would grab him in a heartbeat.
People talked about Darnold, would we rather have him who has had one decent enough year?

I know I am usually a 'Debbie downer' and the glass is always half empty, but with the right coach and right QB, I think we could be a very competitive team with just a couple of key additions. We may not be in the SB class, but were we that for our past SB wins?
Being losers for another few years is sickening and with a guy like Cousins, we would automatically be competitive, that's what I want.

Quote from: LennG on November 16, 2024, 01:39:35 PMSo are you willing to be terrible for the next year also, just for a shot at Arch?

I didn't say that at all. My hope would be that the Giants will be in a position to draft a QB they are high on in this coming draft. I appreciate that the conventional wisdom is that this QB class is slim pickens, but we have no idea what our scouts and front office think of it. And the way things are going, we have a realistic chance of picking first overall.

If we don't like a QB in the draft class, then my preference would be to sign a free agent, of which there are plenty. Are any as good as Cousins? Probably not, but they also won't involve having to part with valuable draft capital to get them nor will they involve having to take on a hefty contract for a late 30s QB that still has three years left on it.

No. he's at the tail end of his career. for #1 you want at least half a decade. could he give you that? maybe. he's good, but he's never taken his team to the next level and probably never will. better than what we got, but not worth a 1. maybe a 3 and a 7.

Quote from: Ed Vette on November 16, 2024, 12:15:25 PMThey would win some games but Cousins has never gone all the way and I don't see him as a permanent solution. There's a potential out in 2026 with a 15mm Cap Hit, otherwise he's 40mm in 25, and 58mm in 26 and 27. Tough to build a team around that, especially adding in the 22mm in Jones' Dead Cap hit in 2025.

Exactly! And for those who see Cousins as this somehow cost-manageable interim means of ending the Giants streak of losing seasons- setting aside our bad luck in Jones having beaten him in the 2022 Playoffs- let us not forget that there is never a guarantee that a new QB whether taken sooner or later will bring real success rather than simple change.

Cheers!

Quote from: LennG on November 16, 2024, 11:51:48 AMAtlanta has to move on from Cousins as they drafted Penix #1. Would you trade our #1 pick to Atlanta for him? If we did, we could have a decent enough QB for the next 5 years and then draft a QB in a lower round for suture consideration.
I don't know draft day values, but Cousins can win and isn't that the point?

Assuming a straight trade, the Giants would be looking at a $27.5 M, $35 M, and $35 M cap hit


Frankly, I would be mildly surprised if the Falcons traded Cousins next season.  Penix has a serious injury history and there would only be a $2.5 M cap savings (against a big dead cap money hit) if they traded him next season.  Seems to make more sense to keep him as a backup, as Drew Lock cost $5 million which would make Cousins a bargain for the Falcons

As mighty points out the money doesn't make a lot of sense for the Falcons to trade him.  But my opinion is you only trade for a guy like Cousins if you don't use your #1 pick and you're planning using that pick on a QB you think might not quite be ready to start.  To me I think like Jalen Milroe.  Maybe you don't want to hand the keys over to him immediately but if you want a guy to keep the seat warm until he's had a year in the system watching and learning that makes sense to me.  If not Cousins, I'm sure they can find another guy in the Flacco mold that can hold the fort down if they need it.