Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: todge on November 18, 2024, 11:47:48 PMFlat out stinks alright.

Game 1 - entire team outclassed by the Vikings.
Games 2-4 this entire Board cited Jones's playing well leading his own idiot coach to state "he's been locked in".
Game 5 - 7 sacks, 10 hits, 10 hurries. Jones took a beating.
Game 6 - 20-26 with three drops and an elite
91.5 PFF score.
Game 7 - the idiot coach calls a flea flicker with less than a two feet to go. Blames Jones publicly for missing open receivers. Guess Jones is the only QB who does that.

Of course the QB is always the scapegoat when a team loses. But the porous defense isn't to blame? The special teams play isn't to blame? The coach and his play calling isn't to blame?

I guess the other 21 starters, the coaches and the officials all have nothing to do with Ws and Ls. It's all about the QB... got it.


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Ted,

I agree, and I think it's worth noting, for all the people kicking Daniel Jones while he is down (the man has lost his starting job and will be losing his position on the team, how much more beating does the man need?)




I also think it's worth noting that the average QB rating this season is 87 and QBR is 60

So, for all the commentary about DJ being the worst QB, DJ (has had 4 games where is QB metric is clear above the averages)

Washington week 2  QB rating 100.0 QBR 68
Browns week 3  QB rating 109.4  QBR 71.3
Seahawks week 5 QB rating 109.6 QBR 68.6
Washington Week 10 QB rating 119.7 QBR 74.0

So the reality that Jones is only this terrible QB who is incapable of playing like an NFL franchise QB really doesn't match reality.   No doubt DJ has had enough bad games, and it's clear his confidence on the field is shot (not that I can blame him after the beating both mental and physical he has endured) the man is not nearly as bad as many are tying to make him out to be.

This 'confidence shot' thing interests me. So here's a timeline:

- Wins a road game in a 'hostile' environment in the 2022 play-offs?

- He then signs the deal

- Comes out the gate 1-6, sacked a hell of a lot - some the fault of the line, some the fault of him (as reported by PFF).

- Comes back from injury, has a revamped OL, Nabers etc

- Benched.

So if we assume the confidence is not shot when he signs the deal, as he managed to win on the road, we are talking about the confidence being somewhere between week 2 and 8 of 2023 (I can't imagine the confidence is eroded in one mere game of 2023).

If that's the case, that's a massive red flag about his intangibles - i.e. his resilience, if he's whole confidence is shot in a short space of time after signing the deal, what does that say about him?


OR an opposing view - the accumulative performance just wasn't good enough. And there's no harm in that, he gave it his best worked hard but ultimately it just wasn't good enough for the New York Giants.

Unless, of course, the whole confidence stuff serves another purpose all together?

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 19, 2024, 08:29:11 AMTed,

I agree, and I think it's worth noting, for all the people kicking Daniel Jones while he is down (the man has lost his starting job and will be losing his position on the team, how much more beating does the man need?)




I also think it's worth noting that the average QB rating this season is 87 and QBR is 60

So, for all the commentary about DJ being the worst QB, DJ (has had 4 games where is QB metric is clear above the averages)

Washington week 2  QB rating 100.0 QBR 68
Browns week 3  QB rating 109.4  QBR 71.3
Seahawks week 5 QB rating 109.6 QBR 68.6
Washington Week 10 QB rating 119.7 QBR 74.0

So the reality that Jones is only this terrible QB who is incapable of playing like an NFL franchise QB really doesn't match reality.   No doubt DJ has had enough bad games, and it's clear his confidence on the field is shot (not that I can blame him after the beating both mental and physical he has endured) the man is not nearly as bad as many are tying to make him out to be.

No one is kicking him while he's down. The assessments have been consistent. His being benched changes nothing about his play.

Edit to add: Coaches and execs have been fired and still talked about. Jones being benched is no different.

Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on November 19, 2024, 08:41:40 AMThis 'confidence shot' thing interests me. So here's a timeline:

- Wins a road game in a 'hostile' environment in the 2022 play-offs?

- He then signs the deal

- Comes out the gate 1-6, sacked a hell of a lot - some the fault of the line, some the fault of him (as reported by PFF).

- Comes back from injury, has a revamped OL, Nabers etc

- Benched.

So if we assume the confidence is not shot when he signs the deal, as he managed to win on the road, we are talking about the confidence being somewhere between week 2 and 8 of 2023 (I can't imagine the confidence is eroded in one mere game of 2023).

If that's the case, that's a massive red flag about his intangibles - i.e. his resilience, if he's whole confidence is shot in a short space of time after signing the deal, what does that say about him?


OR an opposing view - the accumulative performance just wasn't good enough. And there's no harm in that, he gave it his best worked hard but ultimately it just wasn't good enough for the New York Giants.

Unless, of course, the whole confidence stuff serves another purpose all together?

IDK, I do not buy the he was "broken" argument.

They lost 40-0 Week 1, first game after being paid handsomely, and first game after his playoff run, and best season of his career. Most of that team was back with some more pieces added and others healthy, and the offense has struggled since.

Was he broken? Or was it all a fluke?

The fans don't want any part of Drew Lock .so they threw them a bone in Cutlets. Seems to be as much a home crowd incentive to show up, if anything 

They'll be the family shots. the pre game feature in Jersey..yada .yada. Yo. Tommy boy..aye..So what.

No tanks?

As they say. Couldn't hoit

The remaining games will be interesting in a perverse way: rooting for them to lose. And I do so in hopes next year to be enthusiastically rooting for them to win again.

Quote from: T200 on November 19, 2024, 08:46:13 AMNo one is kicking him while he's down.

Are you telling me I have not been reading tons of posts AFTER DJ lost his job saying what a terrible QB he has been?   That is pretty much the definition of kicking a man when he's down.  DJ lost his job, what is served by the continued criticisms?

QuoteEdit to add: Coaches and execs have been fired and still talked about. Jones being benched is no different.

Coaches and execs are a bit different.  When a player is benched, if there are any issues he is causing, the team goes with him to the bench.  When a GM or HC is let go, the team still has to deal with the aftermath of their work for the team.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 19, 2024, 08:59:31 AMAre you telling me I have not been reading tons of posts AFTER DJ lost his job saying what a terrible QB he has been?   That is pretty much the definition of kicking a man when he's down.  DJ lost his job, what is served by the continued criticisms?

Coaches and execs are a bit different.  When a player is benched, if there are any issues he is causing, the team goes with him to the bench.  When a GM or HC is let go, the team still has to deal with the aftermath of their work for the team.

Yes, I am telling you you haven't been reading tons of posts saying that.

What you have been reading are some posts applauding a long overdue decision. It was obvious to many of us here that DJ's ceiling was too low to be an effective starter in the NFL. Yes, he's capable of a good to very good game here and there. One of your last "qualities you like to see in a QB" was consistency. Daniel's only consistency displayed was inconsistency. He was mediocre at best and quite a few folks here ignored it and gave him the benefit of the doubt and deflected for years. Now the chickens have come home to roost.

Quote from: T200 on November 19, 2024, 09:08:47 AMYes, I am telling you you haven't been reading tons of posts saying that.

What you have been reading are some posts applauding a long overdue decision. It was obvious to many of us here that DJ's ceiling was too low to be an effective starter in the NFL. Yes, he's capable of a good to very good game here and there. One of your last "qualities you like to see in a QB" was consistency. Daniel's only consistency displayed was inconsistency. He was mediocre at best and quite a few folks here ignored it and gave him the benefit of the doubt and deflected for years. Now the chickens have come home to roost.

Tim,

I am not arguing that DJ is the answer for this dysfunctional team.  What I am saying is that some of the criticism that is still pouring in on the man down Daniel Jones is a bit hyperbolic.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 19, 2024, 09:24:59 AMTim,

I am not arguing that DJ is the answer for this dysfunctional team.  What I am saying is that some of the criticism that is still pouring in on the man down Daniel Jones is a bit hyperbolic.

Understood.

For those of us who have been told by folks here on the BBH we're not being fair or not giving Jones a chance to show what he's capable of, it's validation from those who know him best and make the decisions, that what we saw and didn't see wasn't a mirage. Not "I told you so..." but simply validation that we saw what we saw and we weren't blinded by false hope and potential.

Quote from: todge on November 18, 2024, 11:47:48 PMFlat out stinks alright.

Game 1 - entire team outclassed by the Vikings.
Games 2-4 this entire Board cited Jones's playing well leading his own idiot coach to state "he's been locked in".
Game 5 - 7 sacks, 10 hits, 10 hurries. Jones took a beating.
Game 6 - 20-26 with three drops and an elite
91.5 PFF score.
Game 7 - the idiot coach calls a flea flicker with less than a two feet to go. Blames Jones publicly for missing open receivers. Guess Jones is the only QB who does that.

Of course the QB is always the scapegoat when a team loses. But the porous defense isn't to blame? The special teams play isn't to blame? The coach and his play calling isn't to blame?

I guess the other 21 starters, the coaches and the officials all have nothing to do with Ws and Ls. It's all about the QB... got it.


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Ted, I appreciate your devotion and you're right, it's not all on him. But the fact remains that through all he's had to face in adversity, it's taken its toll on him. I think that going into this year he knew he was likely to be gone regardless of the outcome of the season. He's been thinking too much and it's evident in the delay in his release and the errant passes. I wouldn't be surprised if he would be diagnosed with PTSD.

Ultimately, this is a good thing for Daniel Jones. He will have time to reflect and recover and go on to another team where there is less pressure as a backup, and who know... maybe he will emerge as a success story.

One thing that can't be minimized, is his commitment, toughness and work ethic, which made him a great teammate, respected by all. Watching the press call, it was clear that it was very difficult for Daboll to work through that. He clearly likes and respects Daniel Jones. I think he believes that Jones still gives them the best chance to win and this wasn't all his decision and it's not how he wanted it to end.

There was a facial tick he made at the beginning of the announcement when he said they were starting Tommy, and that exposed a lot to me, and how he had to protect the Owner by saying he keeps that conversation private. But if it was all his decision, he would have no reason not to say so.

It's time for us to accept that it's time to move on and just get through the rest of this season, and hopefully the Organization finds a way to elevate this team to more successful days.

Quote from: T200 on November 19, 2024, 09:30:35 AMUnderstood.

For those of us who have been told by folks here on the BBH we're not being fair or not giving Jones a chance to show what he's capable of, it's validation from those who know him best and make the decisions, that what we saw and didn't see wasn't a mirage. Not "I told you so..." but simply validation that we saw what we saw and we weren't blinded by false hope and potential.

"Validation" or "I told you so." 

I would suspect that it is open to interpretation and individual opinion.  I will add that kicking the man while he is down doesn't help with the "validation" case.

Daniel Jones, by every appearance, is a hard-working man who busted his ass, putting in more work to try and entertain us with a good product than arguably any quarterback in the league.  He has also suffered, for our entertainment, two serious neck injuries and an ACL tear.  Even his owner admits the team screwed him over.  This is just my opinion, but I think it shows class and character after a man loses his job (despite literally his best efforts) to acknowledge his effort and whatever good he did and not keep harping on how badly he played some games or go hyperbolic in the criticism.  Again making the case for "validation" vs "I told you so"

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 19, 2024, 09:38:21 AM"Validation" or "I told you so." 

I would suspect that it is open to interpretation and individual opinion.  I will add that kicking the man while he is down doesn't help with the "validation" case.

Daniel Jones, by every appearance, is a hard-working man who busted his ass, putting in more work to try and entertain us with a good product than arguably any quarterback in the league.  He has also suffered, for our entertainment, two serious neck injuries and an ACL tear.  Even his owner admits the team screwed him over.  This is just my opinion, but I think it shows class and character after a man loses his job (despite literally his best efforts) to acknowledge his effort and whatever good he did and not keep harping on how badly he played some games or go hyperbolic in the criticism.  Again making the case for "validation" vs "I told you so"

His personal qualities were never in question or up for debate. It's always been about his on-field performance. The fact that you didn't highlight his football attributes tells us all we need to know.

Whatever good he did on the field pales in comparison to his struggles. Some of your reasons are valid. Others are excuses. Ignoring the bad and highlighting the good is a big part of the reason he's lasted for six seasons. The mistake should have been acknowledged by those in charge years ago. Wherever Josh Rosen is, Daniel Jones should have been right next to him.

You and Ted feel Jones got a raw deal from the Giants. Many others feel the Giants fans got a raw deal from Gettleman and Mara.

Quote from: T200 on November 19, 2024, 09:52:47 AMHis personal qualities were never in question or up for debate. It's always been about his on-field performance. The fact that you didn't highlight his football attributes tells us all we need to know.

Whatever good he did on the field pales in comparison to his struggles. Some of your reasons are valid. Others are excuses. Ignoring the bad and highlighting the good is a big part of the reason he's lasted for six seasons. The mistake should have been acknowledged by those in charge years ago. Wherever Josh Rosen is, Daniel Jones should have been right next to him.

You and Ted feel Jones got a raw deal from the Giants. Many others feel the Giants fans got a raw deal from Gettleman and Mara.

I don't think you really addressed my points, and I don't agree with how you are trying to frame the issue.  I also don't see if more discussion will really make a difference.

There's been plenty of acknowledgement for his efforts. There always had been.

Plus the kicking him when he's down, if you view it that way, is immaterial. He's not reading this board.

If you're reading the posts as "I told you so". I doubt that's why different than a large number of posters thought with the since disappeared "I'm so glad the Giants have found their franchise QB".