Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: todge on November 18, 2024, 04:27:50 PMThis organization is an embarrassment and it's getting worse by the week.

If I'm Jones and his agent, I'm asking for anything to get out of this mess. What are the cap limitations for either trading or releasing Jones.

I'm embarrassed to be a Giants fan now.


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Now? Nothing from the last decade brought that out? But they finally do the right thing and it's a bridge too far?

Quote from: todge on November 18, 2024, 04:27:50 PMThis organization is an embarrassment and it's getting worse by the week.

If I'm Jones and his agent, I'm asking for anything to get out of this mess. What are the cap limitations for either trading or releasing Jones.

I'm embarrassed to be a Giants fan now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ted

I think even his agent may drop him because he won't be earning very much after this.

I agree that I am also embarrassed to be a Giants fan now, but not because of the front office, but because he may be the biggest flop at QB since Ryan Leaf was drafted, and people thought he could play also. I still remember him bouncing around the league with several coaches thinking they could spin gold out of straw with him. The same will happen to Jones, he will bounce around, maybe get to start a game or two here and there, maybe even win a few games if he falls to a good team, but overall, he was well paid, over well paid for someone who didn't deserve it.

I still remember you citing over and over that there were several teams ready to pounce on him if we didn't draft him at 6. I never believed that for a moment, and only company man Phil Simms ran with that. But, if there were other teams, don't you think they'd be dancing in the street that they didn't draft him?

You are embarrassed to be a Giants fan now, maybe, but more because of their play than anything else.

And you can always switch to the Eagles and root for Barkley.

Quote from: kingm56 on November 18, 2024, 07:05:29 PMWho would realistically trade for Jones with his bloated contract? The man has zero trade value and is unlikely to be a starting quarterback next season. What you fail to understand is that Jones is the primary reason for the current "mess." Instead of his agent demanding the team get him out of this situation, they should be thanking them for giving a quarterback with limited talent a contract he never earned.

The Giants got fleeced in this deal. Jones is set for life and the Giants are trying to climb out of QB Hell.

At least the coach killer won't claim another victim.

Quote from: T200 on November 18, 2024, 09:58:58 PMThe Giants got fleeced in this deal. Jones is set for life and the Giants are trying to climb out of QB Hell.

At least the coach killer won't claim another victim.

In fairness, what were they supposed to do?  They had just made the play-offs, he played well that season.  Weren't in a position to draft a replacement.  The FA QB's who switched teams that year were Brissett, Carr, Dalton, Garoppolo, Heinicke, and Mayfield. Looking back you could say would have been nice to get Mayfield as he signed a 1-year deal for $4MM. At the time, NONE of those players would have instilled confidence in anyone.  The franchise tag would have been too expensive and they did not have the cap space.  They set it up as a 2 year deal with two 1-year team options for all intents and purposes.  Gave him 2 years, I don't put last year on him, but this year he sucked, so goodbye. 

Quote from: coggs on November 19, 2024, 07:47:55 AMIn fairness, what were they supposed to do?  They had just made the play-offs, he played well that season.  Weren't in a position to draft a replacement.  The FA QB's who switched teams that year were Brissett, Carr, Dalton, Garoppolo, Heinicke, and Mayfield. Looking back you could say would have been nice to get Mayfield as he signed a 1-year deal for $4MM. At the time, NONE of those players would have instilled confidence in anyone.  The franchise tag would have been too expensive and they did not have the cap space.  They set it up as a 2 year deal with two 1-year team options for all intents and purposes.  Gave him 2 years, I don't put last year on him, but this year he sucked, so goodbye. 

Oh, no doubt it was a tough spot for them to be in. But they *did* get the short end of the stick.

I'd be curious to know what Schoen and Daboll *really* wanted to do if they 100% had their way.

Quote from: T200 on November 19, 2024, 07:53:18 AMI'd be curious to know what Schoen and Daboll *really* wanted to do if they 100% had their way.

Yes, me too.

Quote from: todge on November 18, 2024, 04:27:50 PMThis organization is an embarrassment and it's getting worse by the week.

If I'm Jones and his agent, I'm asking for anything to get out of this mess. What are the cap limitations for either trading or releasing Jones.

I'm embarrassed to be a Giants fan now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ted.

Because I can see past DJ's issues, I agree this team is a complete mess.  Fans are literally celebrating (because they like a high draft pick) the likelihood that the team could end up 2-15.  Yet, that would mean Schoen and Daboll took over a 4-13 team three years ago with 7 Pro Bowl Caliber players (Jack Rabbit, Dex, AT, Barkley, McKinney, and Love) and somehow found a way to literally make a worse team than the 4-13 team.   That's even spotting them the same QB (that they choose to keep after year one)

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 19, 2024, 08:09:30 AMTed.

Because I can see past DJ's issues, I agree this team is a complete mess.  Fans are literally celebrating (because they like a high draft pick) the likelihood that the team could end up 2-15.  Yet, that would mean Schoen and Daboll took over a 4-13 team three years ago with 7 Pro Bowl Caliber players (Jack Rabbit, Dex, AT, Barkley, McKinney, and Love) and somehow found a way to literally make a worse team than the 4-13 team.   That's even spotting them the same QB (that they choose to keep after year one)

Even if the Giants do not win another game this year, which I think is unlikely, I would not agree this team is worse than the team they were handed.  When you dig a littttttle bit deeper you'll see that they had to purge a ton of players just to get under the cap disaster Gettleman left.  Whoever the GM was at that point was going to have to do the same thing.  Since then he's built a solid roster around a miserable QB who has only gotten worse.  If you believe Daboll should have done more with Jones that's a fair criticism though I would argue he got about as much out of Jones as anybody possibly could, Jones is just terrible at football.  But to say the roster is worse I would disagree with.  Because they had all those pro bowlers, and still won 4 games.  Now they are younger, faster, more athletic, and average QB play away from being right in the wild card mix.  At this point next season after another draft to plug a couple remaining holes, IF they get the QB pick right (which is a lot easier said than done), I would expect them to be in the hunt for a division title. 

Quote from: Gmo11 on November 19, 2024, 10:53:30 AMEven if the Giants do not win another game this year, which I think is unlikely, I would not agree this team is worse than the team they were handed.  When you dig a littttttle bit deeper you'll see that they had to purge a ton of players just to get under the cap disaster Gettleman left.  Whoever the GM was at that point was going to have to do the same thing.  Since then he's built a solid roster around a miserable QB who has only gotten worse.  If you believe Daboll should have done more with Jones that's a fair criticism though I would argue he got about as much out of Jones as anybody possibly could, Jones is just terrible at football.  But to say the roster is worse I would disagree with.  Because they had all those pro bowlers, and still won 4 games.  Now they are younger, faster, more athletic, and average QB play away from being right in the wild card mix.  At this point next season after another draft to plug a couple remaining holes, IF they get the QB pick right (which is a lot easier said than done), I would expect them to be in the hunt for a division title. 

Parcell's famous quote, "You are what your record says you are," was to warn against revisionist history or mental gymnastics, where you try and paint a team as better or worse than their record.

Also, Schoen inherited 6 Pro Bowl caliber (I forgot L. Williams) in Jack Rabbit, Dex, AT, Barkley, McKinney, and Love

Do they even have 6 Pro-Bowl caliber players on this year's roster?

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 19, 2024, 11:02:11 AMParcell's famous quote, "You are what your record says you are," was to warn against revisionist history or mental gymnastics, where you try and paint a team as better or worse than their record.

Also, Schoen inherited 6 Pro Bowl caliber (I forgot L. Williams) in Jack Rabbit, Dex, AT, Barkley, McKinney, and Love

Do they even have 6 Pro-Bowl caliber players on this year's roster?

Yes but pro bowl players are typically two things: Older and expensive.  Two things that a rebuilding team needs to purge themselves from.  So like I said, ANY incoming GM's plan would have included getting rid of some of most of those guys because if you're old, and expensive, and winning 4 games that's a problem.  That's why I think it's a silly stat to point to.

However for the sake of this exercise pro bowl caliber players meaning playing at the level a pro bowler would play at not necessarily being voted to the actual team:

Thomas
Lawrence
Nabers
Burns
Okereke
Philips
Tracy

Not one of them are 30 years old yet, and 3 of them are rookies.

Schoen's doing a good job so far.  Not perfect, but good.  He should have traded Barkley/McKinney last year, that's a miss.  But he's built a solid roster that's being dragged down by truly miserable QB play.

Quote from: Gmo11 on November 19, 2024, 11:21:06 AMYes but pro bowl players are typically two things: Older and expensive.  Two things that a rebuilding team needs to purge themselves from.  So like I said, ANY incoming GM's plan would have included getting rid of some of most of those guys because if you're old, and expensive, and winning 4 games that's a problem.  That's why I think it's a silly stat to point to.

However for the sake of this exercise pro bowl caliber players meaning playing at the level a pro bowler would play at not necessarily being voted to the actual team:

Thomas
Lawrence
Nabers
Burns
Okereke
Philips
Tracy

Not one of them are 30 years old yet, and 3 of them are rookies.

Schoen's doing a good job so far.  Not perfect, but good.  He should have traded Barkley/McKinney last year, that's a miss.  But he's built a solid roster that's being dragged down by truly miserable QB play.

The majority of your Pro Bowl caliber players are projections rather than playing at a Pro Bowl level (minus the holdovers Dex, AT, and adding in Burns).  Okereke has taken a major step back. Carl Banks is very concerned with the bad habits Nabers is showing on the field, and I am not sure what qualifies Nubin as Pro Bowl.  Philips is looking good if his playing with his hair on fire approach doesn't continue to leave him nicked up.

Jack Rabbit was not nearly pro bowl caliber when he left here. Guy was horrible at tackling and was getting beat regularly

Quote from: T200 on November 19, 2024, 07:53:18 AMOh, no doubt it was a tough spot for them to be in. But they *did* get the short end of the stick.

I'd be curious to know what Schoen and Daboll *really* wanted to do if they 100% had their way.

Yeah, me too.  The FA QB class was thin that year.  After making play-offs, can't imagine they thought one of the QB's I mentioned would be able to bring them back to the play-offs.  I think if they had their druthers, they would have waited, let market play out for Jones.  Not sure anyone else would have given him the same guaranteed money the Giants did.  BUT in their defense, that would have been VERY risky.  All you need is ONE other GM to want him, and the contract may have been worse or they would have been stuck with someone worse.

Quote from: Trench on November 19, 2024, 11:35:06 AMJack Rabbit was not nearly pro bowl caliber when he left here. Guy was horrible at tackling and was getting beat regularly

I am sorry, I got my cornerbacks mixed up, I meant-  James Bradberry

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 19, 2024, 11:25:00 AMThe majority of your Pro Bowl caliber players are projections rather than playing at a Pro Bowl level (minus the holdovers Dex, AT, and adding in Burns).  Okereke has taken a major step back. Carl Banks is very concerned with the bad habits Nabers is showing on the field, and I am not sure what qualifies Nubin as Pro Bowl.  Philips is looking good if his playing with his hair on fire approach doesn't continue to leave him nicked up.

Nabers is leading all rookies in most receiving categories and was absolutely electric when the games meant something.  I never said anything about Nubin, although since you bring him up he is leading all rookies in tackles and could be on this list in the next year or so.  And the young guys I did mention are playing at a pro bowl level right now which I thought was the purpose of that exercise.