Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Gmo11 on November 19, 2024, 10:16:26 AMSo I'm not sure why Mr. Duggan seems to be missing a few relevant details but...

When Daboll and Schoen arrived the team stunk and not surprisingly a big reason for that was the QB stunk. They likely laid out their plan to not pick up the 5th year during their interviews. And mara probably agreed albeit reluctantly because how could he argue even though he liked Jones. The results were the results.

Then that God forsaken 2022 season happens. All of a sudden Jones doesn't look as terrible under Daboll Giants make the playoffs and win a game. Now Mara thinks "wait a minute we can't blow the whole thing up now we're close". (they weren't)

So with Jones and Barkley both as FA and only one franchise tag they had to sign one and tag the other. They tried Barkley during the season and again at that point and he didn't want to be here. I don't blame him. So at th very last minute they had to get Jones a deal they knew he'd take so they could franchise Barkley. But with a 2 year out because even then Schoen knew this was a terrible idea.

At no point were the following 2 opinions even hinted at by Schoen during this process as far as I can tell:

1) Barkley isn't good
2) Daniel Jones is good.

The comment he made "you dont pay a QB $40 million to hand off to a $12 million RB" I felt was a direct shot at Mara saying you wanted this QB and theres only so much money to go around so we can't keep Saquon at that price.

I think this is exactly how it played out. Before anyone asks why not tag Jones, they didnt have the cap space as his tag would have been MUCH higher.  They needed a long-term deal to be able to get creative and fit him under.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 19, 2024, 10:56:53 AMOnly for this to be true, we have to dismiss the fact that the 5th year option was made before working with DJ and the veteran contract was tendered after a year of working with the quarterback.

That same year, the Giants executed the 5th year option on Dexter Lawrence before his breakout. If they thought there was any chance they'd like Jones, they probably would have executed the option on him. It was the option with, by far, the lowest downside. I don't think there's any doubt that they absolutely expected Jones to not be their QB in 2023.

Then, as others have mentioned, that 2022 season happened. The Giants surprised everyone by winning 9 games, went on the road to beat a 13 win team and were stuck between a rock and a hard place at the QB position. They were drafting way too low to get one of the top QBs and the choice was basically either re-sign Jones or let him go and bring in a bridge QB after winning a playoff game. I don't believe that Daboll or Schoen were sold on Jones, but the owner very obviously loved him and suddenly had a somewhat compelling argument to keep him.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If one or two plays that year break in the other direction, we win just 7 or 8 games, miss the playoffs and Jones would have been gone. And if Mara wasn't basically in love with Jones, there's a decent chance he would have been gone after 2022 anyway.

Quote from: jgrangers2 on November 19, 2024, 11:54:58 AMThat same year, the Giants executed the 5th year option on Dexter Lawrence before his breakout. If they thought there was any chance they'd like Jones, they probably would have executed the option on him. It was the option with, by far, the lowest downside. I don't think there's any doubt that they absolutely expected Jones to not be their QB in 2023.

Then, as others have mentioned, that 2022 season happened. The Giants surprised everyone by winning 9 games, went on the road to beat a 13 win team and were stuck between a rock and a hard place at the QB position. They were drafting way too low to get one of the top QBs and the choice was basically either re-sign Jones or let him go and bring in a bridge QB after winning a playoff game. I don't believe that Daboll or Schoen were sold on Jones, but the owner very obviously loved him and suddenly had a somewhat compelling argument to keep him.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If one or two plays that year break in the other direction, we win just 7 or 8 games, miss the playoffs and Jones would have been gone. And if Mara wasn't basically in love with Jones, there's a decent chance he would have been gone after 2022 anyway.

Dexter Lawerence's 5th-year option was $10.8 million.  DJ's was $22.4 million.  Also, while Dexter hadn't reached his full potential thanks to less-than-quality coaching, he had flashed the natural elite talent he possessed.   So, while they were both 5th year options, I do not see similarities beyond that fact.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 19, 2024, 11:59:49 AMDexter Lawerence's 5th-year option was $10.8 million.  DJ's was $22.4 million.  Also, while Dexter hadn't reached his full potential thanks to less-than-quality coaching, he had flashed the natural elite talent he possessed.   So, while they were both 5th year options, I do not see similarities beyond that fact.

One is also a DT and one is a QB. As I mentioned, executing the option for DJ would have been the lowest risk move. At worst, you just have a $22M albatross for a year, which doesn't kill you long term. At best, you have another year to analyze your QB at a relatively reasonable QB price tag. The only way not executing the option makes sense, is if you're pretty sure you're not bringing him back.

Forgetting about QBs for a second, I'd love to know how many players overall have had their 5th year option declined and then ended up signing long-term with the team anyway. There can't be that many such situations.

Quote from: jgrangers2 on November 19, 2024, 12:35:16 PMOne is also a DT and one is a QB. As I mentioned, executing the option for DJ would have been the lowest risk move. At worst, you just have a $22M albatross for a year, which doesn't kill you long term. At best, you have another year to analyze your QB at a relatively reasonable QB price tag. The only way not executing the option makes sense, is if you're pretty sure you're not bringing him back.

Forgetting about QBs for a second, I'd love to know how many players overall have had their 5th year option declined and then ended up signing long-term with the team anyway. There can't be that many such situations.

To your point in bold, it's extremely rare.

To DJ's 5th-year option, I think that is a prime example that you could do something "right" but ultimately be proven wrong.   I am not going to revise history and claim I disagreed with Schoen's decision; I (like most people) thought it was the right thing to do.  However, after the fact, exercising the 5th-year option ultimately would have been the better thing to do.  If they had done so, they would have had DJ on his rookie contract in 2022 and on the more expensive option year in 2023.  After 2023, they would have been free to move on from him or negotiate a much lower contract.