Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: T200 on November 19, 2024, 09:16:08 AMWhere exactly is this sense growing??? That's what I'd like to know.

There was a sense that Jones only needed better protection and a true #1 WR to show what he's capable of.

That then manifested into play calling (despite the calls essentially working)

I don't see how Daboll isn't coaching for his job. If he finishes 3-14 or 4-13 I don't see how they can justify bringing him back.

Quote from: T200 on November 19, 2024, 09:16:08 AMWhere exactly is this sense growing??? That's what I'd like to know.

There was a sense that Jones only needed better protection and a true #1 WR to show what he's capable of.

There was a sense DJ would be benched during the season if the team wasn't in contention.

Also, is this an example of just validation, or kicking a man while he is down and not doing a "I told you so"?

Also, according to Bill Belichick and Mike Lombardi, DJ wasn't enjoying proper protection (4th is sacks supports their claims)

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 19, 2024, 09:44:36 AMThere was a sense DJ would be benched during the season if the team wasn't in contention.

Also, is this an example of just validation, or kicking a man while he is down and not doing a "I told you so"?

Also, according to Bill Belichick and Mike Lombardi, DJ wasn't enjoying proper protection (4th is sacks supports their claims)

Rich,

If you continue to look for something, you will eventually find it.

What Lombardi says is of no value to me.

I've seen Jones run himself into plenty sacks or hold the ball too long and get sacked. PFF supports those claims.

The Jones era is over. My objection is to the whole "kicking a man while he's down."

I'm bowing out. 

Quote from: T200 on November 19, 2024, 10:00:36 AMRich,

If you continue to look for something, you will eventually find it.

What Lombardi says is of no value to me.

I've seen Jones run himself into plenty sacks or hold the ball too long and get sacked. PFF supports those claims.

The Jones era is over. My objection is to the whole "kicking a man while he's down."

I'm bowing out. 

what happened to Bill Belichick?  I know you love to shoot the messenger when it's Mike Lombardi, but are you dismissing what one of the greatest coaches of all time observed?

I looked up the Jags schedule

Texans
Titans
Jets
Raiders
Titans
Colts

So there will be teams knocking each other off this list

The Browns have a killer schedule, with the weakest teams they will be facing being the Dolphins, Ravens, and Bengals

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 19, 2024, 10:04:20 AMwhat happened to Bill Belichick?  I know you love to shoot the messenger when it's Mike Lombardi, but are you dismissing what one of the greatest coaches of all time observed?

You got me. I said I was done but you got me.

This is the dishonesty I refer to when it comes to our discussion. Once again, please show me where I "shot" Lombardi. You can't... because I didn't. Yet you make these false claims and I feel obligated to correct you.

I like Belichick. Is he perfect? Far from it. Is everything he sees correct? Not hardly. It's still his opinion. Did he say his offensive line didn't properly protect Brady in the SB TWICE when the Giants beat them? Grain of salt.

Quote from: T200 on November 19, 2024, 10:14:10 AMYou got me. I said I was done but you got me.

This is the dishonesty I refer to when it comes to our discussion. Once again, please show me where I "shot" Lombardi. You can't... because I didn't. Yet you make these false claims and I feel obligated to correct you.

I like Belichick. Is he perfect? Far from it. Is everything he sees correct? Not hardly. It's still his opinion. Did he say his offensive line didn't properly protect Brady in the SB TWICE when the Giants beat them? Grain of salt.

I am not buying your claims of "dishonesty."   I cited a man who learned his football lessons from Al Davis, Bill Belichick, and Bill Walsh.   Your response when I mentioned what he said was to dismiss it because- What Lombardi says is of no value to me.

That is literally a textbook example of shooting the messenger.   You dismissed what Mike had to say, not based on flaws in his reasoning but ONLY by virtue of being said by a man with a strong football background who still has many inside sources in the league.

If Mike Lombardi was on the witness stand and had to qualify himself as an expert witness, the things I have cited would suffice.   Ignoring that Bill Belichick agreed with Mike on this issue only further strengthened the appearance of shooting the messenger.

Look, I get it, we don't see the world the same way.  I strongly value expertise and experience when I consume my football information.   The people I listen to either are qualified by virtue of their resume (and with Mike, I was extremely impressed by his two books), or they have demonstrated a high level of understanding of the game of football.   I get it; not everyone is going to take the same approach in life.  I hope you could appreciate the frustration when I bring up the sources I consider quality by dismissing one and ignoring one, rather than addressing the points they raise.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 19, 2024, 10:23:40 AMI am not buying your claims of "dishonesty."   I cited a man who learned his football lessons from Al Davis, Bill Belichick, and Bill Walsh.   Your response when I mentioned what he said was to dismiss it because- What Lombardi says is of no value to me.

That is literally a textbook example of shooting the messenger.   You dismissed what Mike had to say, not based on flaws in his reasoning but ONLY by virtue of being said by a man with a strong football background who still has many inside sources in the league.

If Mike Lombardi was on the witness stand and had to qualify himself as an expert witness, the things I have cited would suffice.   Ignoring that Bill Belichick agreed with Mike on this issue only further strengthened the appearance of shooting the messenger.

Look, I get it, we don't see the world the same way.  I strongly value expertise and experience when I consume my football information.   The people I listen to either are qualified by virtue of their resume (and with Mike, I was extremely impressed by his two books), or they have demonstrated a high level of understanding of the game of football.   I get it; not everyone is going to take the same approach in life.  I hope you could appreciate the frustration when I bring up the sources I consider quality by dismissing one and ignoring one, rather than addressing the points they raise.

So you're going to twist things to fit your narrative that I "shot the messenger"?

Being a football "professional" is not the same as being a scientist, medical professional, IT professional, etc. The latter disciplines require years of training and experience.

Being a football person is very subjective and there is too much room for personal bias and interpretation. Why is the draft such a crap shoot? Because it isn't an exact science. There is no tried-and-true methodology. It's a guessing game at best. Lombardi is a guesser. At least Belichick accomplished something. Still doesn't make him 100% correct all the time.

I don't value Lombardi or what he says. That's not shooting the messenger. But, feel free to twist it however you choose.

Once again, I'm out of this conversation as well.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 19, 2024, 10:04:20 AMwhat happened to Bill Belichick?  I know you love to shoot the messenger when it's Mike Lombardi, but are you dismissing what one of the greatest coaches of all time observed?

So can I assume if Daboll is fired you would be ok with Bellichick taking the reigns?

Quote from: Trench on November 19, 2024, 12:35:33 PMSo can I assume if Daboll is fired you would be ok with Bellichick taking the reigns?

Not just okay, he is on the list of coaches who I believe are capable of fixing the Giants' broken culture.

What about in 2 years when he is ready to hang em up for good?

Should the guy who gave the Giants a personal recommendation to hire Joe Judge, be allowed to make another?

Quote from: MrGap92 on November 19, 2024, 12:53:54 PMWhat about in 2 years when he is ready to hang em up for good?

Should the guy who gave the Giants a personal recommendation to hire Joe Judge, be allowed to make another?

Does the man who owns 8 Super Bowl Rings (2 as DC and 6 as HC) be allowed to coach the Giants.   

To the point about 2 years, I think the reason you bring in a Bill Belichick is to fix a broken culture.  Since we know he is shot term you create a succession plan.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 19, 2024, 12:50:26 PMNot just okay, he is on the list of coaches who I believe are capable of fixing the Giants' broken culture.

I'm with ya

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 19, 2024, 01:00:52 PMDoes the man who owns 8 Super Bowl Rings (2 as DC and 6 as HC) be allowed to coach the Giants.   

To the point about 2 years, I think the reason you bring in a Bill Belichick is to fix a broken culture.  Since we know he is shot term you create a succession plan.

I understand, between Judge and his tree as a whole with HCs, why should anyone fee confident in any succession plan of his?