Big Blue Huddle

Dont stretch in draft for a QB just because of need.  If we draft 5th and we dont like the QB options, then draft BPA.  We need more talent.  We get the QB when one is in the right position.

Look no further than this past draft. McCarthy, Nix and Penix were all there. Schoen and Daboll had certain criteria for the QB they wanted and those three didn't fit the bill. That tells me they know what they want and will not do as you said; grab a guy just to have a guy.

Now, one of those three may turn out to be great. But that's how it goes in the draft. I certainly won't beat them up for it.

Quote from: T200 on Today at 07:43:45 AMLook no further than this past draft. McCarthy, Nix and Penix were all there. Schoen and Daboll had certain criteria for the QB they wanted and those three didn't fit the bill. That tells me they know what they want and will not do as you said; grab a guy just to have a guy.

Now, one of those three may turn out to be great. But that's how it goes in the draft. I certainly won't beat them up for it.

I agree with you.  They didnt make the Giants cut.  As a result we got a stud WR.  If in 2025 we dont get a QB the. Let's get a stud OT, DT, etc.

for what it's worth, and the college prospects still have time to put more on tape (especially in college playoff games), Dane Brugler said if you combined this QB class with last year, the top 4 would all come from last year (Williams, Daniels, Maye, and JJ) and the top QBs in this class are on par with Penix and Nix.

Quote from: MightyGiants on Today at 09:19:42 AMfor what it's worth, and the college prospects still have time to put more on tape (especially in college playoff games), Dane Brugler said if you combined this QB class with last year, the top 4 would all come from last year (Williams, Daniels, Maye, and JJ) and the top QBs in this class are on par with Penix and Nix.

So far I agree.  I was very low on Maye (not looking good for me on that one) but I also had JJ in that same tier with the other 3.  And that's where I think Cam + Sanders end up when it's all said and done.  Which is plenty good enough to win with.  We just need whoever they take to not be an enormous bust. 

Quote from: Gmo11 on Today at 10:03:14 AMSo far I agree.  I was very low on Maye (not looking good for me on that one) but I also had JJ in that same tier with the other 3.  And that's where I think Cam + Sanders end up when it's all said and done.  Which is plenty good enough to win with.  We just need whoever they take to not be an enormous bust. 

Sadly, JJ's ACL short-circuited using him as a point of comparison (since we didn't get to see how he did in the NFL this season)

Quote from: T200 on Today at 07:43:45 AMLook no further than this past draft. McCarthy, Nix and Penix were all there. Schoen and Daboll had certain criteria for the QB they wanted and those three didn't fit the bill. That tells me they know what they want and will not do as you said; grab a guy just to have a guy.

Now, one of those three may turn out to be great. But that's how it goes in the draft. I certainly won't beat them up for it.

But, last year they knew they had Jones for another year.  Assuming Jones is released, if they dont get a starter-worty vet in FA (can be a lower end guy), they may get more desperate and reach.  This is assuming DeVito doesn't show enough this season to make them think he can be an adequate place filler until they can get a guy they really want.

Quote from: Philosophers on Today at 09:11:43 AMI agree with you.  They didnt make the Giants cut.  As a result we got a stud WR.  If in 2025 we dont get a QB the. Let's get a stud OT, DT, etc.

And the team is 2-8 with the stud receiver and desperate for a QB to throw to him. You win with QBs much more than you win with stud receivers who have no QB. Schoen and Daboll will not last beyond next year without a big upgrade at QB.

Joe,

I hope they are able to get the guy they want but I think at this point, if Daboll and Schoen are both still with the NY Giants come draft day, they may not have much choice if they want to be around for draft day in 2026. 

I guess a lot comes down to if they don't draft a QB, who will be the starter in 2025?  And will that QB be good enough to buy this regime another year? I assume they will need to show improvement next year and not start 2-8 for the 3rd consecutive year.   If that QB is good enough to buy them another year, good chance, they won't be drafting in position to get a top QB in 2026. 

Quote from: Philosophers on Today at 07:31:15 AMDont stretch in draft for a QB just because of need.  If we draft 5th and we dont like the QB options, then draft BPA.  We need more talent.  We get the QB when one is in the right position.

The challenge comes when teams talk themselves into loving a particular QB.  It's easy to do; driven by desperation, you start to spin a narrative that makes a prospect appear better than they are. 

Quote from: katkavage on Today at 11:28:03 AMAnd the team is 2-8 with the stud receiver and desperate for a QB to throw to him. You win with QBs much more than you win with stud receivers who have no QB. Schoen and Daboll will not last beyond next year without a big upgrade at QB.

The Giants did as you suggested and took DJ and that did not work out.  He was not elite in college in any way.

The QB talent has to be there.  It cant be manufactured.

Quote from: MightyGiants on Today at 10:18:29 AMSadly, JJ's ACL short-circuited using him as a point of comparison (since we didn't get to see how he did in the NFL this season)

I think it's a menicus that he got operated on not an ACL.

Of course- even more ideally you'd have a GM and scouting department that is just very good at evaluating QB's and, if they feel conviction on a guy they should just pull the trigger and not worry if he's going 10-15 slots ahead of what the pack says.  Last year, for example- if they had scouted and felt great about Bo Nix and taken him that high- they would have been beaten up at the time but then completely vindicated if he turned into a franchise QB. 

Same would have happened if DJ had turned out the way we had all hoped.  But therein lies the rub- you've got to be good enough to scout these guys out AND have the conviction to go for it.

Quote from: Philosophers on Today at 01:56:01 PMI think it's a menicus that he got operated on not an ACL.

You are correct, which makes the second surgery even more mysterious

Drafting for need is exactly what caused Gettleman to take Daniel Jones in 2019 rather than hope to find Eli's successor a year earlier which once again proves just how determining success- however defined- is always a matter of chance, fortune, luck. And it will be no different next year whether or not they Draft a Quarterback.

Once again, here's a summary of the success rates for quarterbacks drafted in the first round in the past almost decade and a half.

Franchise QBs: Around 20% of first-round QBs become potential franchise quarterbacks.

Average Starters: About 30% are considered average starters but not franchise material.

Disappointments: Over 50% are considered disappointments, either failing to become quality starters or being complete busts.

It's worth noting that the odds improve slightly for quarterbacks drafted in the top five picks, with a higher percentage becoming Pro Bowlers

2024
Caleb Williams- All too soon
Jayden Daniels
Drake Maye
Michael Penix
J.J McCarthy
Bo Nix

2023
C.J.Stroud - Hit
Bryce Young -?
Anthony Richardson - Miss

2022
Kenny Pickett- Miss

2021

Trevor Lawrence – ?

Zach Wilson – Miss

Justin Fields – ?

Trey Lance – Miss

Mac Jones - Miss

2020

Joe Burrow – Hit

Tua Tagovailoa – ?

Justin Herbert – Hit

Jordan Love – ?

*Brock Purdy - Hit

2019

Kyler Murray – ?

Daniel Jones – Miss

Dwayne Haskins - Miss

2018

Baker Mayfield – ?

Sam Darnold – ?

Josh Allen – Hit

Josh Rosen – Miss

Lamar Jackson – Hit

2017

Mitchell Trubisky – Miss

Patrick Mahomes – Hit

Deshaun Watson - Miss

2016

Jared Goff – Hit

Carson Wentz – Miss

Paxton Lynch – Miss

2015

Jameis Winston – Miss

Marcus Mariota - Miss

2014

Blake Bortles – Miss

Johnny Manziel – Miss

Teddy Bridgewater - Miss

2013

EJ Manuel – Miss

2012

Andrew Luck – Hit

RGIII – Miss

Ryan Tannehill – Miss

Brandon Weeden – Miss

2011

Cam Newton – Miss

Jake Locker – Miss

Blaine Gabbert – Miss

Christian Ponder – Miss

Yeah, there have been some later Round possible hits, mostly misses: 2nd Derek Carr, Jimmy Garappolo, Drew Lock, Jalen Hurts, Will Levis; 4th Dak Prescott. So what?

Cheers!