Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: coggs on November 21, 2024, 10:38:57 AMAnd, if DeVito plays as well or better than Jones and they still lose?  Let's face it, Jones has not set a very high bar for what DeVito needs to do in order to accomplish that.

If the Giants lose out, I will be hard-pressed about how Daboll can keep his job. While I appreciate the Giants desperation for continuity, I have to wonder if they continue to ride with a GM who made the team worse in his 3 year tenure.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 21, 2024, 10:41:11 AMIf the Giants lose out, I will be hard-pressed about how Daboll can keep his job. While I appreciate the Giants desperation for continuity, I have to wonder if they continue to ride with a GM who made the team worse in his 3 year tenure.

And if he loses out and doesn't lose the lockerroom?

Quote from: coggs on November 21, 2024, 10:44:26 AMAnd if he loses out and doesn't lose the lockerroom?

If you go 0-7 and you didn't lose the locker room, how do you explain going 0-7?  0-7 is the mark of a terrible team, especially in light of a not particularly tough slate of opponents.   

Assuming not losing the locker room is defined as the players still playing to their full potential, the team's full potential couldn't beat a Cooper Rush-led Cowboys, a weak Saints team, a flawed Falcon team, and the Colt team with their losing record and QB merry-go-round.    That would be pretty damning to the guy tasked with team building and boosting the overall roster talent.

They can easily lose out because they are just as bad or worse than any of the other teams they're facing including the Cooper Rush Cowboys.  But that's mostly due to their QB play.  If Devito is merely average they will win too many games to get a real shot at a QB in the draft.  That would be very bad for business.  If he's just as bad as Jones or worse, they might very well end up 0-7 and in prime position to get their favorite QB of this draft whoever he may be.  That would be very good.  I don't see how ending up with the "very good" scenario would lead to the coach being fired provided he doesn't sound like a bumbling idiot at the podium the way Judge did at the end.

Daniel jones is 24-45-1 in his career and he hasn't lost support?


The team is 2-8 and that's a horrible record

Is the locker room lost?

I would think when the 40 mill QB is 2-8 and a large part of the problem; the players will be less critical of the backups going 0-7

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 21, 2024, 10:50:03 AMIf you go 0-7 and you didn't lose the locker room, how do you explain going 0-7?  0-7 is the mark of a terrible team, especially in light of a not particularly tough slate of opponents. 

Assuming not losing the locker room is defined as the players still playing to their full potential, the team's full potential couldn't beat a Cooper Rush-led Cowboys, a weak Saints team, a flawed Falcon team, and the Colt team with their losing record and QB merry-go-round.    That would be pretty damning to the guy tasked with team building and boosting the overall roster talent.

Hi Mighty,

Here is a possibility.

I believe Schoen and Daboll both have met with Mara and have explained to him that trying to win out and missing out on the #1 pick is not a good idea. As this is why they couldn't get one of the top 3 QB's last year, and they don't want to make that same mistake again.

We also need to remember that this year was a prove it year for Daniel Jones, as they gave him a #1 WR and improved the offensive line. It was a test to see if he could be the franchise QB for the next ten years, or if they needed to move on. The test has shown that they need to move on and to draft their next guy.

With that being the case, if the team does win several of the remaining games, this can put them in a serious bind. Because if a team ahead of them in the draft is willing to trade the pick with the Giants, then they will have to give up the farm, or if the teams ahead of them don't want to trade the pick, then they are stuck having to draft the BPA, which isn't a bad thing, but doesn't get them what they want until 2026.

Quote from: sxdxca38 on November 21, 2024, 11:06:21 AMHi Mighty,

Here is a possibility.

I believe Schoen and Daboll both have met with Mara and have explained to him that trying to win out and missing out on the #1 pick is not a good idea. As this is why they couldn't get one of the top 3 QB's last year, and they don't want to make that same mistake again.

We also need to remember that this year was a prove it year for Daniel Jones, as they gave him a #1 WR and improved the offensive line. It was a test to see if he could be the franchise QB for the next ten years, or if they needed to move on. The test has shown that they need to move on and to draft their next guy.

With that being the case, if the team does win several of the remaining games, this can put them in a serious bind. Because if a team ahead of them in the draft is willing to trade the pick with the Giants, then they will have to give up the farm, or if the teams ahead of them don't want to trade the pick, then they are stuck having to draft the BPA, which isn't a bad thing, but doesn't get them what they want until 2026.

Welcome to Enlightenment   

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 21, 2024, 10:50:03 AMIf you go 0-7 and you didn't lose the locker room, how do you explain going 0-7?  0-7 is the mark of a terrible team, especially in light of a not particularly tough slate of opponents.   

Assuming not losing the locker room is defined as the players still playing to their full potential, the team's full potential couldn't beat a Cooper Rush-led Cowboys, a weak Saints team, a flawed Falcon team, and the Colt team with their losing record and QB merry-go-round.    That would be pretty damning to the guy tasked with team building and boosting the overall roster talent.

Newsflash:  This IS a terrible team.

Quote from: sxdxca38 on November 21, 2024, 11:06:21 AMHi Mighty,

Here is a possibility.

I believe Schoen and Daboll both have met with Mara and have explained to him that trying to win out and missing out on the #1 pick is not a good idea. As this is why they couldn't get one of the top 3 QB's last year, and they don't want to make that same mistake again.

We also need to remember that this year was a prove it year for Daniel Jones, as they gave him a #1 WR and improved the offensive line. It was a test to see if he could be the franchise QB for the next ten years, or if they needed to move on. The test has shown that they need to move on and to draft their next guy.

With that being the case, if the team does win several of the remaining games, this can put them in a serious bind. Because if a team ahead of them in the draft is willing to trade the pick with the Giants, then they will have to give up the farm, or if the teams ahead of them don't want to trade the pick, then they are stuck having to draft the BPA, which isn't a bad thing, but doesn't get them what they want until 2026.

Agreed.  For all we hear that Mara "wants to win games..." we have no idea what has been said behind closed doors and kept under wraps.  Maybe in the past (2013-2015 for example) Mara preferred they win games down the stretch and screw the draft position.  Maybe the lack of success and Schoen's convincing have made him see going from 2-8 to 7-10 is not what is best for the long-term. 

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 20, 2024, 05:30:06 PMhttps://x.com/schultz_report/status/1859074098585886797?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ

Sources: There is "disappointment" among some #Giants players regarding how the Daniel Jones situation was handled over the past week, especially with players aware it was primarily a financial decision by the organization.

Dexter Lawrence publicly stated on Tuesday: "He's the QB1. To me, he's the best quarterback on the team."

One offensive player told me over the phone: "We're not idiots. They did it because of money. So be it. But Daniel has been all class, never complained, and is now being completely disregarded. The TEAM record is bad. You can point fingers everywhere. To try to blame him is trash, and making him third string is weak as fu**."

The sense I've gotten from multiple sources — players, coaches, and executives — is that the issues within the organization go far beyond just one person.

Players by nature want to win and dont care about whether the team has the 1st or 14th pick.  Some may not be on the team or in the league next year.  Schoen and Daboll have to think about the big-picture and long-term what is best for the franchise.

Quote from: Giantleap56 on November 21, 2024, 09:01:10 AMThere is unhappiness in the Giants locker room. How can there be when the team is 2-8. Their starting QB just got benched for everyone's failures not just his. You have players who now know that this current regime doesn't value contracts and word given. Lock left Seattle on the word he will be given a chance to compete for the starting job. They jumped him in the order of operation. You have a GM who is losing players and getting nothing in return and they are the teams best players. Then you have still to date the best players in the team are still Gettleman players Lawrence, Thomas and Slayton. While Nabers is up and coming he seems to be a whimsical character player. They Daboll and Schoen have nothing to hang their hat on. You have a coach knowing he has an injured kicker doesn't carry one and cost them a game. Then you have him attempt ridiculous 2 point plays. He is a terrible coach all around can't keep his coordinators around always looking to throw someone other than him under the bus players won't trust that guy that's for sure.
The Giants as a whole have a-toxic environment. What free agent is going to take Schoen's word after Lock. I know money talks but the good ones get offers from everywhere.

interesting ,,,,,maybe Shoen and Daball are not safe... after all if this kind of talk continues and players start mailing it in on Sundays ? Who knows how Mara will react...

Quote from: Woody on November 21, 2024, 11:30:43 AMinteresting ,,,,,maybe Shoen and Daball are not safe... after all if this kind of talk continues and players start mailing it in on Sundays ? Who knows how Mara will react...

mail it in? they don't have to mail it in.  They are doing a good job losing when they try.

Out of interest, has anyone else reported this of just Schultz?

Is there merit to this or is someone with a relatively meagre following trying to make a name for himself?

I mean he's hardly Rapsheet, Schefter or Mike G. 

So we've now become the Bucs of old or the Lions & redskins, while they have or starting to flourish. This is so tiring to watch and listen to. Same song and dance.

I don't know what to believe when it comes to this stuff, but it's certainly not outrageous to think players are frustrated during the home stretch of a 2nd consecutive lost season. 

Quote from: Gmo11 on November 21, 2024, 11:00:51 AMThey can easily lose out because they are just as bad or worse than any of the other teams they're facing including the Cooper Rush Cowboys.  But that's mostly due to their QB play.  If Devito is merely average they will win too many games to get a real shot at a QB in the draft.  That would be very bad for business.  If he's just as bad as Jones or worse, they might very well end up 0-7 and in prime position to get their favorite QB of this draft whoever he may be.  That would be very good.  I don't see how ending up with the "very good" scenario would lead to the coach being fired provided he doesn't sound like a bumbling idiot at the podium the way Judge did at the end.

Finishing your 3rd season as HC with a 2-15 record is not a "very good" scenario for the HC even if it might be for the organization.  If we are seeing smoke now and the team is 2-8, I would guess things will get worse with each loss and have the potential to really boil over and create an untenable atmosphere. 

I get the idea that losing is likely the best case scenario for the team.  I just have a hard time thinking that management/ownership can look at the first Giants HC to start consecutive seasons 2-8 and think they have the right guy. I am picturing them trying to rationalize it to the NY media by saying it their QB guru HC couldn't win because of the QB.

I am not putting it all on Daboll or saying I think he is a bad HC, but he has a certain amount of culpability as does pretty much every other person in the organization.