Big Blue Huddle

Art Stapleton @art_stapleton
·
1h
Asked Giants DC Shane Bowen about this the other day: did the bye week give the defense a chance to reset its approach to stopping the run?
Biggest Achilles heel on that side of the ball. Have not been strong + smart enough in run support at DB and too leaky on the outside.

Art Stapleton @art_stapleton
·
1h
Kayvon Thibodeaux's return from IR should help in that regard. He's been intentional against the run + I think he makes a difference. For the overall approach to have an impact, the little things have to matter. Can't have Bobby Okereke as a defensive afterthought. Need him free


NYGfaninCLT @clt_ny
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1h
Okereke's production decline year over year is a question I haven't seen tackled, so to speak.



Jamie Harris @macmanson76
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29m
Saw some coaching breakdown of how Banks tends to take inside instead of outside leverage on defenders, allowing big runs on the outside.  It was evident in the Carolina game when Hubbard had some huge runs.


NYGfaninCLT @clt_ny
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22m
Nubin, too, has taken bad angles yielding explosive runs.

But Okereke's fit and production hasn't been consistent all year.  The DBs are to blame?


Art Stapleton @art_stapleton
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17m
I've seen plays where the DBs are not maintaining leverage on the outside and by crashing in creates a lane and clogs up the inside backers. Leads to overcompensation


NYGfaninCLT@clt_ny
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14m
And I'm sure the weakness of the second interior DL doesn't help, either.

The Big Cat is missed.



Art Stapleton @art_stapleton
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12m
He is. I think Armon Watts is going to get time over last 7 games to play and develop under Patterson



Ceri Dovey💙 @ukgiantsfan1

I'd certainly sooner see more of him than RJR or Davidson.

NYGfaninCLT @clt_ny
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4m
Under discussed is the 3rd down sub package of replacing Okereke for a 3rd DL in consecutive games. It's been more effective than not, but Iron Man no longer...

Very good OP. Good to hear a range of takes on what has been one of this team's most glaring problems for a while now.

I have at times wondered if Okereke is overpraised/overpaid.

Conversation agrees with a lot of what I think I see.  TBH, wasn't sure on a lot of plays who was supposed to seal the edge, but it was apparent it wasn't being handled properly.

The minute Lawrence goes to the sideline teams then go up the middle easily. Ceri mentioned he's seen enough of RJR ( assuming he meant RNR) and I agree and think he is a potential cap savings this offseason.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 23, 2024, 10:42:17 AMVery good OP. Good to hear a range of takes on what has been one of this team's most glaring problems for a while now.

I have at times wondered if Okereke is overpraised/overpaid.

Jeff,


I think it's worth noting that Okereke was aquired when Wink was DC.  It doesn't seem like his skill set fits Bowen's schemes as well.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 23, 2024, 10:45:15 AMJeff,


I think it's worth noting that Okereke was aquired when Wink was DC.  It doesn't seem like his skill set fits Bowen's schemes as well.

Rich,

That is indeed true, but the Giants' run D was a debacle last year too, with both Wink and Okereke here.

I think by far the biggest issue with the defense has been the lack of take aways (fumbles/interceptions)

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 23, 2024, 10:45:15 AMJeff,


I think it's worth noting that Okereke was aquired when Wink was DC.  It doesn't seem like his skill set fits Bowen's schemes as well.

Rich

If that's true it's a shame because he was 1) a bigger signing and 2) provided some of the best LBing last year that this team has seen in a while. 

I feel like Banks has not improved or regressed this year as well.

Hopefully we will see them both take steps next year or that will be yet another waste of a 1st round pick and poor FA signing.

For whatever or whomever we choose to blame, it is fact that through 10 games Bobby Okereke is averaging far fewer Solo Tackles than in his previous 3 seasons as a starting ILB (2 w/ Indy). That is a stat of singular importance for his Run Defense. Projected through 17 games, he will have had just 63 Solos compared to his 3-season average of 95. Of course, that also will have reduced his combined tackles number.

Why that should be so this year is certainly not clear, but I do NOT think that it has much, if anything, to do with the change in DC and scheme.  Aside from there being no evidence, he played one season with Wink and now 4 1/2 seasons with other DCs

Cheers!

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 23, 2024, 10:53:12 AMRich,

That is indeed true, but the Giants' run D was a debacle last year too, with both Wink and Okereke here.

I appreciate that; I was just speaking of Okereke, who has not played as well this season.   The cost of changing up an offensive or defensive scheme is some players may not perform as well in the new scheme.

Why both Bowen and Wink (who both have enjoyed reputations as good run-stoppers with their schemes elsewhere) failed to stop the run here is a bit of a mystery.