Big Blue Huddle

https://x.com/dvnjr/status/1863972735317069957?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ

Goodness..Can't understand that. TC has earned it.

Sham.

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Quote from: Just_jimmy on December 03, 2024, 12:54:05 PMSham.

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How is this a sham?  Would a QB, who was fired 2x for producing identical 7-9, 6-10 and 6-10 records be a first-ballot HOF'er?  TC has a 537 winning pct...his introduction into the HOF is not assured; regardless, he's certainly not a first ballot HOF'er.

That is a joke. TC Belongs in the HOF! Won 2 Super Bowls. And if that's not enough....look at what has become of the Giants since they forced him out!! The man belongs in the Hall.

Just to clarify...the Joke comment was not aimed at you, Kingm56. I was typing up my response to the Hall voting the same time you were.
My comment was towards the HOF voting.

Quote from: ozzie on December 03, 2024, 01:23:06 PMThat is a joke. TC Belongs in the HOF! Won 2 Super Bowls. And if that's not enough....look at what has become of the Giants since they forced him out!! The man belongs in the Hall.

The Giants slide happened during his tenure; his last two years we were downright terrible, and that was with Eli Manning...

Quote from: ozzie on December 03, 2024, 01:23:06 PMThat is a joke. TC Belongs in the HOF! Won 2 Super Bowls. And if that's not enough....look at what has become of the Giants since they forced him out!! The man belongs in the Hall.

Just to clarify...the Joke comment was not aimed at you, Kingm56. I was typing up my response to the Hall voting the same time you were.
My comment was towards the HOF voting.

NO WORRIES, Ozzie!  I take no offense; I get why people want TC in the HOF.  Still, I wouldn't put him in the same class as Madden, Parcells, or Walsh.  I think he eventually gets in, but I don't objectively view him as a first-ballot guy. 

Holmgren has an extensive resume.

 No one is saying he isn't a HOFer, just not this year.
 He will get in eventually.

Quote from: Ed Vette on December 03, 2024, 01:30:08 PMHolmgren has an extensive resume.

Holmgren has a better win % (592 vs 531), fewer sub 500 seasons (3 in 17 years vs 8 in 20 years), more playoff appearance (12 in 17 years vs 9 in 20 years), and better playoff record (24-13 vs 19-12) than TC. By almost every objective data point, Holmgren should go into the HoF before TC.  I suspect they both get in, but it will take some time. 

Holmgren didn't take on an expansion franchise and turn them into a championship contender. Tom did.

This is not just about a stats sheet. Holmgren is worthy and in fact proves that Tom is as well.


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Quote from: kingm56 on December 03, 2024, 02:09:06 PMHolmgren has a better win % (592 vs 531), fewer sub 500 seasons (3 in 17 years vs 8 in 20 years), more playoff appearance (12 in 17 years vs 9 in 20 years), and better playoff record (24-13 vs 19-12) than TC. By almost every objective data point, Holmgren should go into the HoF before TC.  I suspect they both get in, but it will take some time. 

Very well said and congratulations to Mike Holmgren, a first-tier "disciple" of Bill Walsh, for progressing to the next stage.

By no means does this diminish the worthiness of Coughlin, Shanahan or even Parker and Reeves who ALL are deserving coaches whom I feel will have their day in the future.

On Ralph Hay, owner of the Canton Bulldogs, and founding member of the American Professional Football Association (APFA), which evolved into the National Football League (NFL) two years later. Inducting Hay, according to his supporters, "will finally enshrine one of the persons credited for founding its dominant league."

Ralph Hay among Pro Football Hall of Fame Finalists

Perhaps Mr. Hay is long overdue to take his place alongside his fellow founding fathers in his hometown Canton, not far from the auto dealership he ran when he founded his Bulldogs back in the day.

Peace!

Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on December 03, 2024, 02:54:33 PMHolmgren didn't take on an expansion franchise and turn them into a championship contender. Tom did.

This is not just about a stats sheet. Holmgren is worthy and in fact proves that Tom is as well.


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The NFL provided both expansion teams with distinct advantages to ensure they became competitive as quickly as possible. These advantages included the following:

Expansion Draft
The expansion draft enabled the Panthers and Jaguars to select players from other NFL teams, giving them a foundation of experienced talent. Established teams were allowed to protect a limited number of players, leaving others unprotected and available for selection.

Scheduling Advantage
In their early seasons, both teams were granted more favorable schedules to help them adjust to the rigors of the NFL, facing weaker opponents more often.

Higher Draft Selections
The Panthers and Jaguars were awarded the first two overall picks in the 1995 NFL Draft, which allowed them to select top-tier talent right away.

As a result of these carefully structured advantages, the Carolina Panthers finished their second season with a 12-4 record and won their division, while the Jacksonville Jaguars went 9-7, just one game behind the Pittsburgh Steelers.  Again, the NFL manipulated the rules to ensure both teams were competitive quickly...this wasn't a result of superior coaching. to that point, is Dom Capers considered a Hall of Fame-worthy coach due to Carolina's immediate success?

The advantages given to both expansion teams allowed them to quickly build competitive rosters. When that talent began to erode, TC's last three seasons with Jax resulted in records of 7-9, 6-10, and 6-10, ultimately leading to his firing. If anything, the expansion process gave both TC and Capers distinct advantages over other first-time NFL coaches, as both were able to build teams with quality veterans and high-first round draft picks...most importantly, both found QBs early, although Collins self-destructive as a byproduct of alcohol abuse.

Awards for Mike Holmgrem

As a head coach
Super Bowl champion (XXXI)
Green Bay Packers Hall of Fame
Seattle Seahawks Ring of Honor
State of Washington Sports Hall of Fame (2017)

As an assistant coach
2× Super Bowl champion (XXIII, XXIV)
National champion (1984)
San Jose Sports Hall of Fame (2024)

For Tom Coughlin

3× Super Bowl champion:
XXV (as assistant coach)
XLII, XLVI (as head coach)
NFL Coach of the Year (1996)
New York Giants Ring of Honor
Pride of the Jaguars


MH Record

Regular season:   161–111 (.592)
Postseason:   13–11 (.542)
Career:   174–122 (.588)

TC Record

Regular season:   170–150 (.531)
Postseason:   12–7 (.632)
Career:   College: 28–23–2 (.547)
Bowl games: 1–1 (.500)
NFL: 182–157 (.537)
Superbowl games: 2–0 (1.000)

Tom Coughlin is HOFer. He's just not a first ballot HOFer. Very few guys are.

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