Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: kingm56 on December 03, 2024, 08:42:04 PMWell stated, Lenn.

Quality of life is undeniably important, but for many NFL players, family considerations take precedence. For instance, do we believe the Mahomes family is concerned with nightlife? Were the Mannings? It's unlikely. Additionally, the majority of coaching candidates—who tend to be older—probably do not prioritize urban living when evaluating job opportunities.

There is also a broader cultural shift underway: more Americans are choosing to live outside of major cities. According to The New York Times, New York City has experienced a 1.95% annual population decline since the last census in 2019. Given this trend, the notion that playing in New York offers a significant advantage seems outdated. In fact, in today's environment, it could be argued that playing in New York presents more disadvantages than benefits.

Matt,  sorry but the sociology is completely independent from where any one person wants to live.  Further, you can live in the "sticks" not too far from Giants stadium. 

To Lens point it's not necessarily about "partying".  Especially I would think among coaches and FO types (whom I thought this thread was about) who spend an incredible amount of time at work. The area has a lot of positives to offer whether you want to live in the city or north and west of the stadium. 

I think for players it's a different equation than for coaches and FO people and really a different conversation. 

I am not sure about Daball and the other coaches since I am not privy to the activity before games and if the failures were more due to poor execution or schemes and preparation of the players, even though it has been pretty clear that the team has not been ready for the starts of the past two seasons.
One thing that is very clear by now, is that Schoen and his scouting staff, collectively lack the required ability to assess O line and to a lesser extent CBs. Even if they were excellent in all other areas (questionable), they still fail, therefore he would be unqualified to be the general manager.
You can not be trying to build a winning Ferrari on a broken chassis and your head mechanics do not know how to weld it correctly.

Quote from: uconnjack8 on December 03, 2024, 09:06:38 PMMatt,  sorry but the sociology is completely independent from where any one person wants to live.  Further, you can live in the "sticks" not too far from Giants stadium. 

To Lens point it's not necessarily about "partying".  Especially I would think among coaches and FO types (whom I thought this thread was about) who spend an incredible amount of time at work. The area has a lot of positives to offer whether you want to live in the city or north and west of the stadium. 

I think for players it's a different equation than for coaches and FO people and really a different conversation. 

Fair enough, Matt. 

Oh I remember Gary Zimmerman. He was a little bitch who with almost no leverage managed to demand his draft be traded. What he gained in a smaller city gave up a team many considered a super bowl contender that went on to win 2. He's lucky to have finally gotten a ring with Denver before he retired. I always rooted against him. 

You can bring in any QB it won't change the Giants fortunes. They will still lose to the Eagles and Cowboys. Put simply this team just isn't good enough to compete with those two teams. The roster has been depleted by Schoen and there isn't any pick he can say is a game changer. While Nabers and Tracey have shown some talent. I just don't believe we have the right coach to win big games. Put it mildly the league has caught on to Daboll after his first 7-8 games and it's all been down hill since. Mara open your eyes this BS of needing their own QB is a joke it's a shame that he can't see it. These two Schoen and Daboll are basically hoodwinking Mara. This is what you get when you don't earn something and it's given to you. Mara needs to earn his keep making stupid decisions again and again not doing due diligence these are signs of man of privilege an example of something given not earned.

Quote from: Giantleap56 on Today at 07:07:47 AMYou can bring in any QB it won't change the Giants fortunes. They will still lose to the Eagles and Cowboys. Put simply this team just isn't good enough to compete with those two teams. The roster has been depleted by Schoen and there isn't any pick he can say is a game changer. While Nabers and Tracey have shown some talent. I just don't believe we have the right coach to win big games. Put it mildly the league has caught on to Daboll after his first 7-8 games and it's all been down hill since. Mara open your eyes this BS of needing their own QB is a joke it's a shame that he can't see it. These two Schoen and Daboll are basically hoodwinking Mara. This is what you get when you don't earn something and it's given to you. Mara needs to earn his keep making stupid decisions again and again not doing due diligence these are signs of man of privilege an example of something given not earned.

Disagree entirely.  Would have been 6-2 after 8 games with a QB that was just below average by NFL standards and would have won both games against the C*wb*ys.

Quote from: Giantleap56 on Today at 07:07:47 AMYou can bring in any QB it won't change the Giants fortunes. They will still lose to the Eagles and Cowboys. Put simply this team just isn't good enough to compete with those two teams. The roster has been depleted by Schoen and there isn't any pick he can say is a game changer. While Nabers and Tracey have shown some talent. I just don't believe we have the right coach to win big games. Put it mildly the league has caught on to Daboll after his first 7-8 games and it's all been down hill since. Mara open your eyes this BS of needing their own QB is a joke it's a shame that he can't see it. These two Schoen and Daboll are basically hoodwinking Mara. This is what you get when you don't earn something and it's given to you. Mara needs to earn his keep making stupid decisions again and again not doing due diligence these are signs of man of privilege an example of something given not earned.

Good point


Just consider the top 3 QBs in this class

Caleb went to the Bears, who are still losing
Maye want to the Pats, who are still losing
Daniel went to the Commanders, who started winning (but they changed the HC, GM, and much of the roster)

Quote from: coggs on Today at 08:10:07 AMDisagree entirely.  Would have been 6-2 after 8 games with a QB that was just below average by NFL standards and would have won both games against the C*wb*ys.

I don't live in some hypothetical world the could have should have. I could just have said if you had a real coach we would have been 6-2. It wasn't Jones that didn't carry a kicker when he knew he was injured. We had a coach that said "You are what your record says you are". It's not just the QB's record it's the entire team's including the coaches record it's the GM's and Owners' record as well. By blaming the QB you're letting the GM and Coach get away with their atrocious decisions. You are just setting the new QB up for a coaching change, another coaching carousel. It's an opportunity to start fresh.

Peyton Manning was 1-15 his rookie season.  Drafting a QB you hope to change the long term trajectory of the team, not the next year

Quote from: Giantleap56 on Today at 09:14:49 AMI don't live in some hypothetical world the could have should have. I could just have said if you had a real coach we would have been 6-2. It wasn't Jones that didn't carry a kicker when he knew he was injured. We had a coach that said "You are what your record says you are". It's not just the QB's record it's the entire team's including the coaches record it's the GM's and Owners' record as well. By blaming the QB you're letting the GM and Coach get away with their atrocious decisions. You are just setting the new QB up for a coaching change, another coaching carousel. It's an opportunity to start fresh.

That is not my point, but ok.  If you feel coaching is the problem, then there is nothing wrong with you saying, "with a real coach....."   You said "we can bring in any QB and it won't change the Giants fortunes..."  I am disagreeing with that comment.  By adding, "...We will still lose to the Eagles and cowboys...." you are in fact living in hypotheticals.

Quote from: uconnjack8 on Today at 09:14:58 AMPeyton Manning was 1-15 his rookie season.  Drafting a QB you hope to change the long term trajectory of the team, not the next year

Matt,

Payton Manning was drafted nearly 30 years ago, and the game has fundamentally changed in the last decade. In the modern NFL, quarterbacks experience success much earlier in their careers, due to several factors, most notably significant rule changes after 2010 that benefit passers. Have you considered these more recent examples:

1. 2024 Wash Commanders - Drafted Jayden Daniels; went from 4-12 to 10-7 (current projection) (+6 wins)
2. 2020 Cinci Bengals -Drafted Joe Burrow; went from 2 - 14 to 10-7 (note - Burrow injured) (+8 wins)
3. 2022 Hou Texan - Draft CJ Stroud; went from 3 - 13 - 1 to 10 - 7 (+7 wins)
4. 2012 Wash - Drafted RGII; went from 5 - 11 to 10 - 6 (+5 wins)
5. 2011 Car Panthers - Drafted Cam Newton; went from 2 - 14 to 6 - 10 (+4 wins)
6. 2011 Seattle Seahawks - Drafted Russel Wilson; went from 7 - 9 to 11 - 5 (+4 wins)
7. 2012 Indy Colts - Drafted Andrew Luck; went from 2 - 14 to 11 - 5 (+9 wins)
8. 2016 Dallas Cowboys - Drafted Dak Prescot; went from 4 - 12 to 13 - 3  (+9 wins)


These are just the rookies; there are several other examples of Pro Bowl-caliber quarterbacks who were signed and immediately transformed their teams the following season. It happens often; yet, a few posters seem to believe it's impossible.

Quote from: kingm56 on Today at 11:41:08 AMMatt,

Payton Manning was drafted nearly 30 years ago, and the game has fundamentally changed in the last decade. In the modern NFL, quarterbacks experience success much earlier in their careers, due to several factors, most notably significant rule changes after 2010 that benefit passers. Have you considered these more recent examples:

1. 2024 Wash Commanders - Drafted Jayden Daniels; went from 4-12 to 10-7 (current projection) (+6 wins)
2. 2020 Cinci Bengals -Drafted Joe Burrow; went from 2 - 14 to 10-7 (note - Burrow injured) (+8 wins)
3. 2022 Hou Texan - Draft CJ Stroud; went from 3 - 13 - 1 to 10 - 7 (+7 wins)
4. 2012 Wash - Drafted RGII; went from 5 - 11 to 10 - 6 (+5 wins)
5. 2011 Car Panthers - Drafted Cam Newton; went from 2 - 14 to 6 - 10 (+4 wins)
6. 2011 Seattle Seahawks - Drafted Russel Wilson; went from 7 - 9 to 11 - 5[ b](+4 wins)[/b]
7. 2012 Indy Colts - Drafted Andrew Luck; went from 2 - 14 to 11 - 5 (+9 wins)
8. 2016 Dallas Cowboys - Drafted Dak Prescot; went from 4 - 12 to 13 - 3  (+9 wins)


These are just the rookies; there are several other examples of Pro Bowl-caliber quarterbacks who were signed and immediately transformed their teams the following season. It happens often; yet, a few posters seem to believe it's impossible.

I don't think it's impossible, just not a reasonable expectation that a rookie QB is going to totally change the organization. 

I think if people expect this team to be the Commanders of this year or the Texans of last year it's setting yourself up for disappointment.  That being said, the correct QB should change the trajectory of the Giants in the long term

Quote from: uconnjack8 on Today at 11:45:40 AMI don't think it's impossible, just not a reasonable expectation that a rookie QB is going to totally change the organization. 

I think if people expect this team to be the Commanders of this year or the Texans of last year it's setting yourself up for disappointment.  That being said, the correct QB should change the trajectory of the Giants in the long term

That's a fair point, Matt, and I completely agree with you. I do believe there's enough baseline talent for the Giants to be competitive, if they draft the right quarterback, right tackle, and add a few more pieces on defense. I thought the 2024 draft class was outstanding, and I believe they will only improve next season. I haven't made this declaration in multiple seasons; in fact, I even thought we were a 7-win team in 2023, but I believe there's hope for next year and beyond. Of course, if we select the wrong quarterback, we're looking at a few more years of terrible football.  I hope we get it right...