Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 09, 2024, 01:43:05 PMI guess if we want to be out of the playoffs before Haloween, keeping those two would give us the best chances...

I assume you are laming away referring to next year. Well, it aint gonna happen. And if you don't like it, well that's what broke the baby's tooth.

Cheers!

Quote from: Doc16LT56 on December 09, 2024, 01:59:54 PMIf Daboll is coming back, which I think would be a mistake, I'd rather just sign Darnold and draft Hunter. I see no reason to allow a lame duck regime to draft a QB 1st or 2nd overall.

Doc,

I agree to a point.

I will say that, in practical terms, think your view is most likely 100% correct.

In theoretical terms however, I think if Mara is indeed bringing these two men back, inherent in that decision has to be a belief that they may still be good at their jobs. And that he still "believes in them." If he doesn't, then it makes absolutely no sense to bring either of them back. There is no "dead money" issue with a coach or GM, so this is not a situation like Jones where they brought him back in 2024 despite publicly trying to trade up to draft his replacement in the 2024 draft. If Mara brings back Schoen and Daboll, almost by definition it should mean he still believes in their abilities.

I myself am no longer convinced of the abilities of either of these men. But it's obviously not my decision. If it were, and I brought them back, it would be because, for whatever reason(s), I still thought they could do the job well. Hence, I would allow them to draft any player they felt was in the best interests of the franchise.

Say goodbye not only to next year, but maybe the next five if Daboll comes back. The case for him returning is about as weak as case you could ever have. His record as "head coach" is setting NY Giants all time lows, but NFL records too. He has done absolutely nothing to instill confidence that he is a capable head coach. They will get a QB in the draft and that QB will have a new coach and system to learn after next year or the year after when Daboll is ultimately fired by this inept organization. It's a given

In the last 3 weeks Giants have gotten so much worse.  Five more games to gain greater dysfunction.  Dabs seat only will get hotter and more toasty.

I always thought his resume was padded and more about being in right place than actually being "the guy."

For all who are wishing for Darnold, it's very possible his play of late has made him fairly unattainable with our cap outlook.

Darnold won't cost appreciably less than Jones. If less at all.

Quote from: Doc16LT56 on December 09, 2024, 01:59:54 PMIf Daboll is coming back, which I think would be a mistake, I'd rather just sign Darnold and draft Hunter. I see no reason to allow a lame duck regime to draft a QB 1st or 2nd overall.

One of the biggest arguments for bringing them back is to allow them to draft their own QB instead of dealing with an inherited mess.

Quote from: Gmo11 on December 09, 2024, 02:04:46 PMWhat's confusing to me is if you are looking ahead to the draft, losing these games now is a necessary evil.  They simply have to lose them.  One single win and they could end up dropping SO far.  Armed with that knowledge, how can we hold these games against anybody? 

I get that going 2-15 is a fireable offense and not a person in the football watching world would think it's crazy if the Giants decided to fire one or both of them, but I do think they deserve a real chance with a real QB. 

If Mara keeps them I think it's yet another indication that keeping Jones was perhaps not made mandatory, but strongly encouraged by ownership.  Moreso than Daboll/Schoen who immediately turned down the 5th year option upon arrival indicating they wanted him gone as quickly as possible. If they go 2-15 in 2022 instead of that miracle playoff run, I think this team today would be right with the Eagles fighting for the division. Or at least very close to that.  Hell they might have even kept Barkley.  That season set them back so much.   

Part of me thinks at the time, they saw it as "we can't go into FA without a QB".  A "necessary evil" if you will.  After 2021, think they were all ready to move on, hence not picking up the 5th year option.  Then, 2022 happened and they all looked at each other and said, "Oh $h!t, now what the hell do we do..."  The FA options were not pretty at the time, they had just made the play-offs.  Unfortunately, the market is what the market is.

Quote from: coggs on December 09, 2024, 07:40:27 PMOne of the biggest arguments for bringing them back is to allow them to draft their own QB instead of dealing with an inherited mess.

The most likely scenario with a rookie QB is another double digit loss season. So they'd be forced to decide on firing Daboll after year 1 of their young QB (similar to what they did with Pat Shurmur) or they're committing to keeping Daboll for a 5th year after what would likely be a 3rd consecutive double digit loss season. Both seem like idiotic choices to force yourself into.

The least likely scenario is they have a winning record next season with a rookie QB. You draft a QB for the long term, not for the expectation of immediate results. You don't bring back Daboll and allow him to coach a rookie QB unless you are committing at least two years to him.

Quote from: coggs on December 09, 2024, 07:47:41 PMPart of me thinks at the time, they saw it as "we can't go into FA without a QB".  A "necessary evil" if you will.  After 2021, think they were all ready to move on, hence not picking up the 5th year option.  Then, 2022 happened and they all looked at each other and said, "Oh $h!t, now what the hell do we do..."  The FA options were not pretty at the time, they had just made the play-offs.  Unfortunately, the market is what the market is.

Whst was an option after 2022 was to franchise Jones.  The problem was a meddling Mara who I think strongly "encouraged " a first year GM to ensure his other beloved player be kept and that resulted in Barkley being franchised.  Once that happened, Jones had all the power in the contract negotiations.  In my opinion, Mara is keeping Schoen and Daboll and has probably stopped meddling because he finally understands his role in the mess we have today

Quote from: Doc16LT56 on December 09, 2024, 08:05:12 PMThe most likely scenario with a rookie QB is another double digit loss season. So they'd be forced to decide on firing Daboll after year 1 of their young QB (similar to what they did with Pat Shurmur) or they're committing to keeping Daboll for a 5th year after what would likely be a 3rd consecutive double digit loss season. Both seem like idiotic choices to force yourself into.

The least likely scenario is they have a winning record next season with a rookie QB. You draft a QB for the long term, not for the expectation of immediate results. You don't bring back Daboll and allow him to coach a rookie QB unless you are committing at least two years to him.

Pretty much a possible death sentence for the franchise.

Quote from: PSUBeirut on December 09, 2024, 07:07:06 PMFor all who are wishing for Darnold, it's very possible his play of late has made him fairly unattainable with our cap outlook.

Darnold and other younger FA QBs like him, prefer to sign one-year deals in the hope that they will have chance to prove their greater value and worth going forward. There can be little doubt that he is well on his way to doing that this year. Thus, he should be in a good bargaining position in seeking a multiyear deal next season.

Should he and the Giants share a mutual interest in his return to the Meadowlands, Joe Schoen & Co. will have more than ample cap money to do such a deal next year and boatload more in 2026. I seriously doubt an interest on either side, but money would not seem an impediment or yet another reason to hate on Schoen- not referring to you, Steve.

Cheers! 

Quote from: coggs on December 09, 2024, 07:40:27 PMOne of the biggest arguments for bringing them back is to allow them to draft their own QB instead of dealing with an inherited mess.

So what happens if they draft Sanders then the next year Daboll gets fired?  Now Sanders will be on HC and OC #2 with the same argument of "new coach didnt draft Sanders."  How does that help anyone?

Quote from: Doc16LT56 on December 09, 2024, 08:05:12 PMThe most likely scenario with a rookie QB is another double digit loss season. So they'd be forced to decide on firing Daboll after year 1 of their young QB (similar to what they did with Pat Shurmur) or they're committing to keeping Daboll for a 5th year after what would likely be a 3rd consecutive double digit loss season. Both seem like idiotic choices to force yourself into.

The least likely scenario is they have a winning record next season with a rookie QB. You draft a QB for the long term, not for the expectation of immediate results. You don't bring back Daboll and allow him to coach a rookie QB unless you are committing at least two years to him.

How did you determine which was the least and most likely to happen?

Quote from: Philosophers on December 09, 2024, 09:09:15 PMSo what happens if they draft Sanders then the next year Daboll gets fired?  Now Sanders will be on HC and OC #2 with the same argument of "new coach didnt draft Sanders."  How does that help anyone?

Sanders is a much better QB than Jones. There was enough film on Jones to see he wasn't the answer.

One year of tape on Sanders will not turn off an incoming coach.