News:

Moderation Team: Vette, babywhales, Bob In PA, gregf, bighitterdalama, beaugestus, T200

Owner: MightyGiants

Link To Live Chat

Mastodon

Main Menu

Albert Breer thinks Schoen and Daboll are back

Started by MightyGiants, December 09, 2024, 01:10:28 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 10 Guests are viewing this topic.

katkavage

Quote from: T200 on December 09, 2024, 09:17:35 PMHow did you determine which was the least and most likely to happen?
No one knows but what would you expect? Seriously? The second coming of Jayden Daniels? And Daniels along with a new coaching regime contributed to Washington's turnaround. If Rivera remained do you think even with Daniels Washington has a turnaround?

T200

Quote from: katkavage on December 09, 2024, 09:22:41 PMNo one knows but what would you expect? Seriously? The second coming of Jayden Daniels? And Daniels along with a new coaching regime contributed to Washington's turnaround. If Rivera remained do you think even with Daniels Washington has a turnaround?
At a minimum, I expect better QB play, better offensive production, and more scoring. I expect to see Hyatt and Johnson targeted more. I expect to see receivers hit in stride to maximize YAC.

How that translates to wins and losses is anyone's guess. I'm certainly not predicting wins and losses at this point without even knowing what the roster is going to look like next year.

Those most and least likely scenarios are beyond premature.

I don't think Rivera was a bad coach. Had he stayed and they still drafted Daniels, I think they'd still have a winning record. The kid is talented and coaching doesn't factor into his skillset. He walked into the building with that talent. The coaching puts him in a position to succeed. I think Rivera would have done similar.

Do you think Washington would be as good if they had Daniel Jones instead of Jayden Daniels?
:dance: :Giants:  ALL HAIL THE NEW YORK GIANTS!!!  :Giants: :dance:

"We're going to build this thing the right way... I'm not going to do a Hail Mary for self preservation. We've got a plan in place and we're going to stick with that"

-Giants GM Joe Schoen on potential roster plans and spending for the 2025 season.

katkavage

Quote from: T200 on December 09, 2024, 09:31:14 PMAt a minimum, I expect better QB play, better offensive production, and more scoring. I expect to see Hyatt and Johnson targeted more. I expect to see receivers hit in stride to maximize YAC.

How that translates to wins and losses is anyone's guess. I'm certainly not predicting wins and losses at this point without even knowing what the roster is going to look like next year.

Those most and least likely scenarios are beyond premature.

I don't think Rivera was a bad coach. Had he stayed and they still drafted Daniels, I think they'd still have a winning record. The kid is talented and coaching doesn't factor into his skillset. He walked into the building with that talent. The coaching puts him in a position to succeed. I think Rivera would have done similar.

Do you think Washington would be as good if they had Daniel Jones instead of Jayden Daniels?
Of course not. Jones couldn't carry Daniels jock. But Washington improved their defense considerably. They are a much improved team overall. I disagree. They would be better, close to .500 but not 8-4 if Rivera was coach withe Daniels.

T200

Quote from: katkavage on December 09, 2024, 09:39:30 PMOf course not. Jones couldn't carry Daniels jock. But Washington improved their defense considerably. They are a much improved team overall. I disagree. They would be better, close to .500 but not 8-4 if Rivera was coach withe Daniels.
If the Giants didn't have so many 3-and-outs and put up TDs instead of FGs, it would have helped the defense.
:dance: :Giants:  ALL HAIL THE NEW YORK GIANTS!!!  :Giants: :dance:

"We're going to build this thing the right way... I'm not going to do a Hail Mary for self preservation. We've got a plan in place and we're going to stick with that"

-Giants GM Joe Schoen on potential roster plans and spending for the 2025 season.

Doc16LT56

Quote from: T200 on December 09, 2024, 09:17:35 PMHow did you determine which was the least and most likely to happen?
Over the last 25 years, 75 QBs have been drafted in the first round. Only 5 of them have thrown for 4,000 yards as a rookie. Only 9 of them have started a playoff game as a rookie. Of the 6 drafted this year, only 2 have a shot at the playoffs and none have a realistic shot at 4,000 yards.

Anything is possible, but the odds of a rookie QB making his struggling head coach look good are not exactly high. You don't (or shouldn't) flippantly draft a QB just to see what happens with your coaching staff.  You draft a QB with a coaching staff you believe in and are committed to for the long-term. That's my view.

T200

Quote from: Doc16LT56 on December 09, 2024, 09:57:50 PMOver the last 25 years, 75 QBs have been drafted in the first round. Only 5 of them have thrown for 4,000 yards as a rookie. Only 9 of them have started a playoff game as a rookie. Of the 6 drafted this year, only 2 have a shot at the playoffs and none have a realistic shot at 4,000 yards.

Anything is possible, but the odds of a rookie QB making his struggling head coach look good are not exactly high. You don't (or shouldn't) flippantly draft a QB just to see what happens with your coaching staff.  You draft a QB with a coaching staff you believe in and are committed to for the long-term. That's my view.
Not trying to be argumentative but double-digit wins (mentioned in your first post) or 4000 yards isn't a requirement to show improvement.

The Giants have needed a QB since Eli retired. Drafting one next season isn't a flippant decision to see what a coaching staff can do.

I get many of you want Daboll gone but some of these takes are mind-boggling.

I do appreciate your sharing your thoughts.
:dance: :Giants:  ALL HAIL THE NEW YORK GIANTS!!!  :Giants: :dance:

"We're going to build this thing the right way... I'm not going to do a Hail Mary for self preservation. We've got a plan in place and we're going to stick with that"

-Giants GM Joe Schoen on potential roster plans and spending for the 2025 season.

Doc16LT56

Quote from: T200 on December 09, 2024, 10:04:27 PMNot trying to be argumentative but double-digit wins (mentioned in your first post) or 4000 yards isn't a requirement to show improvement.

The Giants have needed a QB since Eli retired. Drafting one next season isn't a flippant decision to see what a coaching staff can do.

I get many of you want Daboll gone but some of these takes are mind-boggling.

I do appreciate your sharing your thoughts.
It's mind boggling that you think these takes are mind boggling. Not sure why you're so emotionally invested in the Brian Daboll experiment. You're losing the plot now by questioning the common knowledge that rookie QBs struggle more often than not. I point out that they are likely facing a double digit loss season even with Sanders, and your mind is boggled. Ok.

T200

Quote from: Doc16LT56 on December 09, 2024, 10:12:47 PMIt's mind boggling that you think these takes are mind boggling. Not sure why you're so emotionally invested in the Brian Daboll experiment. You're losing the plot now by questioning the common knowledge that rookie QBs struggle more often than not. I point out that they are likely facing a double digit loss season even with Sanders, and your mind is boggled. Ok.
It's mind-boggling because:

1) The most likely scenario with a rookie QB is another double digit loss season.

2) The least likely scenario is they have a winning record next season with a rookie QB.

Then when I ask how you came up with those, you said:

1) Only 5 of them have thrown for 4,000 yards as a rookie. Only 9 of them have started a playoff game as a rookie.

2) You don't (or shouldn't) flippantly draft a QB just to see what happens with your coaching staff.

None of what you said supports your statement about your most/least-likely scenarios, nor do they determine how many games they will win.

That's why it's mind-boggling.

Not trying to be argumentative. I'm just not picking up what you're putting down.  :-??

And for the record, what makes you think I'm emotionally invested in Daboll?
:dance: :Giants:  ALL HAIL THE NEW YORK GIANTS!!!  :Giants: :dance:

"We're going to build this thing the right way... I'm not going to do a Hail Mary for self preservation. We've got a plan in place and we're going to stick with that"

-Giants GM Joe Schoen on potential roster plans and spending for the 2025 season.

Doc16LT56

Quote from: T200 on December 09, 2024, 10:25:50 PMIt's mind-boggling because:

1) The most likely scenario with a rookie QB is another double digit loss season.

2) The least likely scenario is they have a winning record next season with a rookie QB.

Then when I ask how you came up with those, you said:

1) Only 5 of them have thrown for 4,000 yards as a rookie. Only 9 of them have started a playoff game as a rookie.

2) You don't (or shouldn't) flippantly draft a QB just to see what happens with your coaching staff.

None of what you said supports your statement about your most/least-likely scenarios, nor do they determine how many games they will win.

That's why it's mind-boggling.

Not trying to be argumentative. I'm just not picking up what you're putting down.  :-??

And for the record, what makes you think I'm emotionally invested in Daboll?
You've shared nothing of substance to support your pro Daboll stance. You're doing a bad faith review of my points yet share nothing of value. I've left plenty of meat on the bone for anyone interested in the other point of view. The only reason to be boggled is because you choose to be.

T200

Quote from: Doc16LT56 on December 09, 2024, 10:44:24 PMYou've shared nothing of substance to support your pro Daboll stance. You're doing a bad faith review of my points yet share nothing of value. I've left plenty of meat on the bone for anyone interested in the other point of view. The only reason to be boggled is because you choose to be.
Not sure why you're getting defensive. I just asked a simple question.

I've posted plenty about what I think of Daboll and why.

I'll leave it at that.

Have a good night.
:dance: :Giants:  ALL HAIL THE NEW YORK GIANTS!!!  :Giants: :dance:

"We're going to build this thing the right way... I'm not going to do a Hail Mary for self preservation. We've got a plan in place and we're going to stick with that"

-Giants GM Joe Schoen on potential roster plans and spending for the 2025 season.

BlueMoshik

I honestly think some of you have not grasped just how bad these Giants are. Are you watching the games?

"Not having their own guy at QB", even if that were true (it is not - Daniel Jones by now WAS Schoen's guy and Daboll's guy), doesn't explain the total ineptitude that is the 2024 New York Giants. It doesn't explain having more penalties than points in a game in week 14, it doesn't explain the awful playcalling, the weird decision-making, the flawed roster, the lack of leadership. The team is historically bad and some of you are talking about Daniel Jones as the reason for everything. That is absolutely insane at this point.

As for the draft: it is also insane to me that some of you really think that, with the #1 or #2 pick in the draft, the Giants don't draft a QB. You don't get cute in that situation. With a #1 pick, you get a new HC and hopefully a new and competent GM, and you start over with a new rookie QB. In 2004 when the Giants drafted Philip Rivers and traded for Eli Manning, they had a new HC (Coughlin) to start over. I have absolutely no faith in Daboll to develop a young QB, and he'd probably be gone after a year, meaning the new QB would have to start over in year 2 with a new HC.

This team is just awful. You can't bring back the guys responsible for it. They simply didn't earn it. It's a complete failure and there are no redeeming qualities or excuses. 

katkavage

Quote from: T200 on December 09, 2024, 09:45:03 PMIf the Giants didn't have so many 3-and-outs and put up TDs instead of FGs, it would have helped the defense.
If Daboll wasn't calling the plays....

katkavage

Quote from: Doc16LT56 on December 09, 2024, 10:44:24 PMYou've shared nothing of substance to support your pro Daboll stance. You're doing a bad faith review of my points yet share nothing of value. I've left plenty of meat on the bone for anyone interested in the other point of view. The only reason to be boggled is because you choose to be.
There is nothing of substance in his coaching. They are setting NFL records of ineptitude. Bringing the guy back would be pure insanity.

londonblue

For me it comes down to a simple question.

Do we trust Schoen/Daboll more (distrust them less!) selecting a QB than we trust Mara/Tisch selecting a GM and HC?

If yes we reluctantly advocate for status quo. If no we choose eternal optimism and more change.

I fear I may be veering towards being a reluctant status quo advocate as I would not let Mara/Tisch select a tie for me to wear.
If you live your life as a pessimist you never really live your life at all.

katkavage

Quote from: londonblue on December 10, 2024, 05:10:10 AMFor me it comes down to a simple question.

Do we trust Schoen/Daboll more (distrust them less!) selecting a QB than we trust Mara/Tisch selecting a GM and HC?

If yes we reluctantly advocate for status quo. If no we choose eternal optimism and more change.

I fear I may be veering towards being a reluctant status quo advocate as I would not let Mara/Tisch select a tie for me to wear.
London, they will make that selection either this year or next. As fans, our only hope, and yes experience tells us that it's a slim one with Mara/Tisch, is that they finally, through luck alone and the odds, but with no skills of their own, find the right GM/Coach for the franchise. My feeling is if they bring back this horrific duo, we again go through this circus next year or certainly the year after and that means another five years, at least, before Giant fans even have a chance to have hope.