Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: BlueMoshik on December 10, 2024, 04:52:41 AMWhat does Joe Torre have to do with anything?

When Daboll was hired the headlines were good. The headlines are bad now after three seasons of Daboll.

Your argument is that Joe Torre turned out to be a HOF manager so the Giants should keep Daboll after a 2-win season?

I'm on record for wanting Daboll fired. All I was pointing out is there have been times where media and fans were totally wrong!

I didn't want Torre. Thought he was a retread. Boy was I wrong.

All I was trying to do here was point out that the guys who want Daboll to stay can point to Torre success as a reason to have optimism with Daboll. Torre was horrific with his managerial stints with the Mets, Braves and Cards.

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 10, 2024, 10:34:59 AMFirst, I predicted right after the Broncos drafted Nix that he would play well there (because I recognized the support the Broncos offered and knew it would maximize Nix's skill set).   As I said, the Giants not being primed to develop a QB is a major issue that lands at the feet of Schoen and Daboll.

As for the 2023 draft, the Giants were picking 25th and lacked extra draft capital.  So, who were they realistically going to draft?   The Giants lacked the ammo to go all the way up to 3rd to draft the last one taken (Anthony Richardson, who isn't a sure thing at this point).  Teams needing a QB draft a QB when they are sitting high in the draft, they don't trade all the way down to 25th.

As for the fact that they tried to move up and fail, I am aware.   You need to have a quality backup plan when your original plan fails.   Their backup plan led to a second season of double-digit losses and a chance to draft a QB with far more question marks than the ones they passed on in the last draft.

Did you advocate for the GIANTS to draft him??? No, you didn't.

The backup plan was to draft a true #1 receiver that you were crying about that he didn't have as one of Danny Checkdown's support pillars.

Quote from: T200 on December 10, 2024, 10:40:44 AMDid you advocate for the GIANTS to draft him??? No, you didn't.

The backup plan was to draft a true #1 receiver that you were crying about that he didn't have as one of Danny Checkdown's support pillars.

If the Giants had drafted him, I doubt he would have played as well (for reasons I have already stated).  So why would I advocate for him?   The reality is the team is dysfunctional.  Until that is fixed, it doesn't matter who is drafted, they are more than likely to fail, especially at such a dependent position like QB.

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 10, 2024, 10:43:43 AMIf the Giants had drafted him, I doubt he would have played as well (for reasons I have already stated).  So why would I advocate for him?   The reality is the team is dysfunctional.  Until that is fixed, it doesn't matter who is drafted, they are more than likely to fail, especially at such a dependent position like QB.

But you are slamming Schoen for not drafting him.

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 10, 2024, 08:31:20 AMTim,

I think the far more important question is how you are not holding them accountable for that critical decision.   All they needed was one QB.  If one of those (and it's looking pretty good for Nix) QB prospects develops into a franchise QB and it is looking like a major mistake by Schoen and Daboll (and not one that is easily pawned off on John Mara, since we saw him give his blessing on HK).

So, which is it, Rich?

Quote from: T200 on December 10, 2024, 10:49:12 AMBut you are slamming Schoen for not drafting him.

So, which is it, Rich?

It's both


A GM need to both create the support and draft a QB, if one is needed.   It's not an either or

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 10, 2024, 11:02:38 AMIt's both


A GM need to both create the support and draft a QB, if one is needed.   It's not an either or

You're talking in circles. 

Quote from: T200 on December 10, 2024, 10:49:12 AMBut you are slamming Schoen for not drafting him.

So, which is it, Rich?

The draft experts are saying that the three the Giants didn't pick have higher grades than the two they might pick. It was a major mistake not to take one of the three and gamble that with Nabers, Jones would be productive. Bad judgement. And I said it at the time

Quote from: katkavage on December 10, 2024, 11:44:37 AMThe draft experts are saying that the three the Giants didn't pick have higher grades than the two they might pick. It was a major mistake not to take one of the three and gamble that with Nabers, Jones would be productive. Bad judgement. And I said it at the time

I don't put much stock into what the draft "experts" and their grades say. It's all subjective. The draft isn't a science and no one gets these things right all the time.

The people who are paid to make the choices need to do their homework and make the decision they think is best WITHOUT INFLUENCE FROM MARA AND HIS CRONIES.

Quote from: katkavage on December 10, 2024, 11:44:37 AMThe draft experts are saying that the three the Giants didn't pick have higher grades than the two they might pick. It was a major mistake not to take one of the three and gamble that with Nabers, Jones would be productive. Bad judgement. And I said it at the time

Those same experts though Trevor Lawrence was a cant miss, generational talent, so what, some experts they are.

Quote from: T200 on December 10, 2024, 11:50:08 AMI don't put much stock into what the draft "experts" and their grades say. It's all subjective. The draft isn't a science and no one gets these things right all the time.

The people who are paid to make the choices need to do their homework and make the decision they think is best WITHOUT INFLUENCE FROM MARA AND HIS CRONIES.

The same people here repeating what "experts" say, also state how much of an unexact science, the crapshoot is.

Are the grades good or bad, or is it a crapshoot, they cant have both.

Quote from: T200 on December 10, 2024, 11:50:08 AMI don't put much stock into what the draft "experts" and their grades say. It's all subjective. The draft isn't a science and no one gets these things right all the time.

The people who are paid to make the choices need to do their homework and make the decision they think is best WITHOUT INFLUENCE FROM MARA AND HIS CRONIES.

I put less stock in the Giants scouts these days.

Quote from: MrGap92 on December 10, 2024, 12:02:08 PMThose same experts though Trevor Lawrence was a cant miss, generational talent, so what, some experts they are.

I'd take Lawrence in a heartbeat as long as he has a functioning support system and coaching staff, which he has never had at Jacksonville.

Quote from: katkavage on December 10, 2024, 12:04:25 PMI put less stock in the Giants scouts these days.

Fair enough. No qualms there.

Re: draft experts, I just took a quick look at four different mock drafts from this past season. Only one of them had the Giants picking a QB (McCarthy) at 6. The others were Nabers and Odunze.

Quote from: T200 on December 10, 2024, 12:11:06 PMFair enough. No qualms there.

Re: draft experts, I just took a quick look at four different mock drafts from this past season. Only one of them had the Giants picking a QB (McCarthy) at 6. The others were Nabers and Odunze.

Guess the experts are wrong since the agenda doesnt match       

Quote from: MrGap92 on December 10, 2024, 12:38:11 PMGuess the experts are wrong since the agenda doesnt match       

Because the Giants long earlier telegraphed their move.