Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Philosophers on December 21, 2024, 12:19:10 PMIt is easier to find a good WR than a good QB?

Don't you think so?

It is not so easy to find good WRs. Look at all the sieves we have had in between OBJ and Nabors.

Quote from: Philosophers on December 21, 2024, 12:19:10 PMIt is easier to find a good WR than a good QB?

Yes. A no brainer. Plus the value of a QB much outweighs a WR.

Quote from: TDToomer on December 21, 2024, 12:59:20 PMIt is not so easy to find good WRs. Look at all the sieves we have had in between OBJ and Nabors.

I don't think he says it's easy... it's a comparison between the two positions.

Consider that there are more receivers than QBs in general, so it stands to reason that just from a numbers standpoint, it's easier to find a good WR than a good QB. Then, add in the responsibilities of each position and the difficulty in finding a good QB becomes much more difficult.

Quote from: T200 on December 21, 2024, 05:49:54 PMI don't think he says it's easy... it's a comparison between the two positions.

Consider that there are more receivers than QBs in general, so it stands to reason that just from a numbers standpoint, it's easier to find a good WR than a good QB. Then, add in the responsibilities of each position and the difficulty in finding a good QB becomes much more difficult.

A good QB can make average WRs look good or good look great.  Doesn't often happen in reverse.

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Quote from: Just_jimmy on December 21, 2024, 06:10:16 PMA good QB can make average WRs look good or good look great.  Doesn't often happen in reverse.

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I agree to an extent. A great receiver can make tough catches on errant, less than accurate passes that inflate a QB's numbers and make him look better than he is.

To answer the original topic, was drafting Nabers a mistake? The answer is no, and here is why.

The Giants needed to figure out if Daniel Jones was the team's long term answer at QB, or if they needed to move on.

Drafting Nabers gave Daniel a legitimate #1 WR, and eliminated the excuses to see if he could carry the team.

It took about ten games to do so, but the Giants received the answer that they needed, and Nabers helped them make that decision, instead of being in limbo regarding DJ.

Now they can officially move on.

I was in favor of drafting Malik Nabers.  I had visions of Nabers being open and giving the QB some easy slam dunk throws.  Only I haven't seen Nabers getting open like I anticipated.  Sure, Nabers is putting up good stats, but it seems that is more due to being targeted so much rather than creating separation.  That was what I felt after watching the film.  I went to NFL Next Gen stats, and they confirmed what I was seeing on film.  Nabers has an anemic 2.7 yards of separation


https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/receiving#average-separation

Quote from: sxdxca38 on December 22, 2024, 08:20:01 AMTo answer the original topic, was drafting Nabers a mistake? The answer is no, and here is why.

The Giants needed to figure out if Daniel Jones was the team's long term answer at QB, or if they needed to move on.

Drafting Nabers gave Daniel a legitimate #1 WR, and eliminated the excuses to see if he could carry the team.

It took about ten games to do so, but the Giants received the answer that they needed, and Nabers helped them make that decision, instead of being in limbo regarding DJ.

Now they can officially move on.

Why it took so long to see the flaws in Jones game is why the Giants are the mess they are. Those flaws had been evident for a very long time.

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 22, 2024, 08:41:07 AMI was in favor of drafting Malik Nabers.  I had visions of Nabers being open and giving the QB some easy slam dunk throws.  Only I haven't seen Nabers getting open like I anticipated.  Sure, Nabers is putting up good stats, but it seems that is more due to being targeted so much rather than creating separation.  That was what I felt after watching the film.  I went to NFL Next Gen stats, and they confirmed what I was seeing on film.  Nabers has an anemic 2.7 yards of separation


https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/receiving#average-separation

Really?  Thought he was getting open more.

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 22, 2024, 08:41:07 AMI was in favor of drafting Malik Nabers.  I had visions of Nabers being open and giving the QB some easy slam dunk throws.  Only I haven't seen Nabers getting open like I anticipated.  Sure, Nabers is putting up good stats, but it seems that is more due to being targeted so much rather than creating separation.  That was what I felt after watching the film.  I went to NFL Next Gen stats, and they confirmed what I was seeing on film.  Nabers has an anemic 2.7 yards of separation


https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/receiving#average-separation

That number is incredibly misleading in that it only accounts for when a player is targeted so if you're a guy who is getting targeted a lot, even when you're covered, that number is going to be relatively low. Even the top guys in the NFL are only in the 3 range and they aren't hindered by the lack of a deep passing game and a legit #2 receiver.

I've seen plenty of tape of Nabers getting open and simply not getting the ball because either the protection breaks down or the QB just can't process quickly enough.

Quote from: jgrangers2 on December 22, 2024, 09:22:39 AMThat number is incredibly misleading in that it only accounts for when a player is targeted so if you're a guy who is getting targeted a lot, even when you're covered, that number is going to be relatively low. Even the top guys in the NFL are only in the 3 range and they aren't hindered by the lack of a deep passing game and a legit #2 receiver.

I've seen plenty of tape of Nabers getting open and simply not getting the ball because either the protection breaks down or the QB just can't process quickly enough.

Sorry, but I do not agree with the idea that the quarterback is only throwing to Nabers when he is less open, especially not with Nabers being targeted so often.

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 22, 2024, 09:26:48 AMSorry, but I do not agree with the idea that the quarterback is only throwing to Nabers when he is less open, especially not with Nabers being targeted so often.

This is not what I'm saying at all. What I'm saying is that elite receivers are the #1 option on a play a lot and, therefore, the ball gets thrown in their direction more, including when they have limited separation. 22 of the top 32 players on that list are tight ends (FYI Brock Bowers is the best receiving tight end in the league and his 18th in separation at the position). AJ Brown and George Pickens have two of the four lowest numbers in that stat. Guys like Justin Jefferson, Jamarr Chase, Ceedee Lamb and Amon-Ra St. Brown are only around 3 yards of separation per target.

What you want is a stat that shows yards of separation per route run and I doubt that actually exists.

Nabers has had a weird season..ups..downs..chirping..but needs a complimentary piece at WR. Bowers is an impossible match up TE..LBS can't stay with him.

A mistake seems harsh, but he has had plenty of drops too. Got hurt..after a fast start and he does take some plays off. There's the classic Diva DNA in him, but a great talent. Not great yet, though.

Quote from: katkavage on December 22, 2024, 08:43:35 AMWhy it took so long to see the flaws in Jones game is why the Giants are the mess they are. Those flaws had been evident for a very long time.

You have to keep in mind he thrived in 2022, and had a solid year.

So that's why two more years were needed to see if it was just a mirage or the real deal.