Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: katkavage on December 23, 2024, 09:15:52 PMBottom line: 5-12. 2-13. 'Nuff said. Please, I don't want to hear excuses why he hasn't succeeded, I want to hear what he has gotten the team to do well in the past two years. I see nothing, but maybe you know something I don't.

I do but you're not willing to hear it.

Look, we don't decide anything. That's up to Mara and/or Schoen.

If both Schoen and Daboll are back, that tells me I was on the right track with what I think happened regarding Jones and Mara's involvement.

Quote from: T200 on December 23, 2024, 09:22:28 PMI do but you're not willing to hear it.

Look, we don't decide anything. That's up to Mara and/or Schoen.

If both Schoen and Daboll are back, that tells me I was on the right track with what I think happened regarding Jones and Mara's involvement.

We can agree that the common denominator issue that plagues the organization is Mara. And a symptom of that issue was Mara 's judgement in his hires including the hiring of Schoen who hired Daboll. Both have been failures but yes the biggest failure is Mara. Still tell me what Daboll does well as a coach. You say you have but I must have missed it.

Quote from: katkavage on December 23, 2024, 09:30:57 PMWe can agree that the common denominator issue that plagues the organization is Mara. And a symptom of that issue was Mara 's judgement in his hires including the hiring of Schoen who hired Daboll. Both have been failures but yes the biggest failure is Mara. Still tell me what Daboll does well as a coach. You say you have but I must have missed it.

He has solid offensive game plans. He put together a good coaching staff.

Could those areas be better? Certainly. The #1 reason this offense has not lived up to its potential is the deficiency at QB.

We had a serviceable offensive line and very good skill position players this year. Having a real QB who could move the ball and put TDs on the board would have changed the dynamic of this team and the season.

Daboll is far from perfect. But he has been limited by the most important position on the field. Give him a QB who can run this offense and he will look much better.

Quote from: T200 on December 23, 2024, 09:48:50 PMHe has solid offensive game plans. He put together a good coaching staff.

Could those areas be better? Certainly. The #1 reason this offense has not lived up to its potential is the deficiency at QB.

We had a serviceable offensive line and very good skill position players this year. Having a real QB who could move the ball and put TDs on the board would have changed the dynamic of this team and the season.

Daboll is far from perfect. But he has been limited by the most important position on the field. Give him a QB who can run this offense and he will look much better.

Thanks. I'm not sure about the coaching staff. The defensive coordinator is not good and the special teams are a mess. What you seem to be describing in terms of positives is a good offensive coordinator not a head coach. I want the Giants to find a solid head coach. We all know the QB issue. I've been all over that for several years.

Quote from: T200 on December 23, 2024, 08:38:42 PMIsn't that usually how it goes?

Do you think they'd be as successful with Daniel Jones instead of the QBs they had?

I have no doubt all of them would do better than 2-13. You are exaggerating, Sir.

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Quote from: T200 on December 23, 2024, 09:48:50 PMHe has solid offensive game plans. He put together a good coaching staff.

Could those areas be better? Certainly. The #1 reason this offense has not lived up to its potential is the deficiency at QB.

We had a serviceable offensive line and very good skill position players this year. Having a real QB who could move the ball and put TDs on the board would have changed the dynamic of this team and the season.

Daboll is far from perfect. But he has been limited by the most important position on the field. Give him a QB who can run this offense and he will look much better.

What players have developed under Daboll?

What unit has improved over the years?

Where is there a positive on the play of the team?

Let me ask a simple question.

Why is 3 years not enough time to evaluate the job that both Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll have done?

Did special teams improve over the 3 years or the D or the O?

What about player development?

Did player acquisition notably improve?

Are we a better team in 2024 than we were at the end of 2021?

Three years are enough when you evaluate all these components.

I think it's a helpful exercise to toss Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll into the appropriate list and see who you pick for GM and HC from the list.  If it's not Joe and Brian, it's time for a change.

Quote from: BlueMoshik on December 24, 2024, 06:20:01 AMI have no doubt all of them would do better than 2-13. You are exaggerating, Sir.

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So your position is that if you replace Daboll with any of those coaches, they'd be better than 2-13? How much better? 4-11? 6-9? 8-7? 10-5?

What exactly did I exaggerate?

Quote from: Philosophers on December 24, 2024, 07:29:46 AMWhat players have developed under Daboll?

What unit has improved over the years?

Where is there a positive on the play of the team?

There was improved play across the board until Thomas went down.

Why the drop in production? I have no clue.

I do agree that it was a mistake for Daboll to take over OC duties instead of letting Kafka do the job.

Quote from: T200 on December 24, 2024, 08:56:17 AMSo your position is that if you replace Daboll with any of those coaches, they'd be better than 2-13? How much better? 4-11? 6-9? 8-7? 10-5?

What exactly did I exaggerate?

The exaggeration is in this weird insistence that everything bad about the team and men leading is the one man Daniel Jones. Just not a serious analysis. He wasn't good, sure. But he's gone now and the team is horrible. I believe Daboll is an incompetent HC irrespective of Daniel Jones. You seem to think he'd be John Harbaugh if he had... Joe Flacco?

Just not serious.

Also, sorry, Daniel Jones was his guy. And Schoen's. That's what happens after three years with the same guy.

I would consider keeping Schoen if Mara hired a President of Football Operations (who Schoen reported to)

Aponte or Savage would be good candidates for the President job

Quote from: BlueMoshik on December 24, 2024, 09:55:00 AMThe exaggeration is in this weird insistence that everything bad about the team and men leading is the one man Daniel Jones. Just not a serious analysis. He wasn't good, sure. But he's gone now and the team is horrible. I believe Daboll is an incompetent HC irrespective of Daniel Jones. You seem to think he'd be John Harbaugh if he had... Joe Flacco?

Just not serious.

Also, sorry, Daniel Jones was his guy. And Schoen's. That's what happens after three years with the same guy.

Sounds like you either don't fully understand my point or you're adding something to it and then judging me on it.

Regardless, I realize I'm on my own little island as far as wanting both Schoen and Daboll back. I'm good with that.

Quote from: BlueMoshik on December 24, 2024, 09:55:00 AMThe exaggeration is in this weird insistence that everything bad about the team and men leading is the one man Daniel Jones. Just not a serious analysis. He wasn't good, sure. But he's gone now and the team is horrible. I believe Daboll is an incompetent HC irrespective of Daniel Jones. You seem to think he'd be John Harbaugh if he had... Joe Flacco?

Just not serious.

Also, sorry, Daniel Jones was his guy. And Schoen's. That's what happens after three years with the same guy.

Interesting that you mentioned Harbaugh and Flacco.

When Flacco started declining and was not longer effective, Harbaugh's seat was getting warm. He drafted Lamar Jackson and we see the difference a very good QB can make not only for the team but the coach as well.

I have never suggested that Daboll was this great coach. My only point is that he hasn't had a good QB to work with. I truly believe that if he was able to get Maye or Daniels, this team would be closer to .500 and showing much more progress.

If he gets Ward or Sanders (or whatever QB they believe in) in April, barring a major injury, this team can be .500 or better next year.

Quote from: T200 on December 24, 2024, 11:01:40 AMInteresting that you mentioned Harbaugh and Flacco.

When Flacco started declining and was not longer effective, Harbaugh's seat was getting warm. He drafted Lamar Jackson and we see the difference a very good QB can make not only for the team but the coach as well.

I have never suggested that Daboll was this great coach. My only point is that he hasn't had a good QB to work with. I truly believe that if he was able to get Maye or Daniels, this team would be closer to .500 and showing much more progress.

If he gets Ward or Sanders (or whatever QB they believe in) in April, barring a major injury, this team can be .500 or better next year.

Harbaugh's Ravens never got to the point that Daboll's Giants are at, even with a declining Flacco. I continue to think it's simplistic to attribute this dumpster fire to "Daboll didn't get to work with his own QB". I think that's frankly delusional about the state of the team and the many reasons why they're so bad.