Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: BlueMoshik on December 24, 2024, 11:13:57 AMHarbaugh's Ravens never got to the point that Daboll's Giants are at, even with a declining Flacco. I continue to think it's simplistic to attribute this dumpster fire to "Daboll didn't get to work with his own QB". I think that's frankly delusional about the state of the team and the many reasons why they're so bad.

You continue to insinuate and add things that I didn't say. Further, distilling it down to "Daboll didn't get to work with his own QB" completely removes all the nuance and effects of having a competent QB. If you don't think a good QB has an effect on how the offensive line performs, how the receivers perform, and how the defense performs, there's no point in me further discussing football with you.

Stop with the excuses.  Dabs cant coach.  The fact he could not either get DJ to stop throwing meaningless 4 yard checkdowns to go to 4th down or does not see how meaningless they are tells me he is not fit for the job.

Quote from: Philosophers on December 24, 2024, 11:54:32 AMStop with the excuses.  Dabs cant coach.  The fact he could not either get DJ to stop throwing meaningless 4 yard checkdowns to go to 4th down or does not see how meaningless they are tells me he is not fit for the job.

What excuses have I made? Jones was not a good QB and that's Daboll's fault? He was forced to work with him and because he couldn't duplicate 2022, he's a bad coach?

 

Quote from: T200 on December 24, 2024, 12:10:29 PMWhat excuses have I made? Jones was not a good QB and that's Daboll's fault? He was forced to work with him and because he couldn't duplicate 2022, he's a bad coach?

 

I am not specifically calling you out.  Dabs could have benched DJ.  He could have demanded a QB be drafted last year.  Instead he went in laissez-faire like, "it's cool.  It will all be good."  Same attitude before we got drubbed 40-0 by the Cowboys last year on opening game.

His judgment is terrible.

Also his prep is terrible.  His in game adjustments are terrible.

Quote from: Philosophers on December 24, 2024, 12:42:26 PMI am not specifically calling you out.  Dabs could have benched DJ.  He could have demanded a QB be drafted last year.  Instead he went in laissez-faire like, "it's cool.  It will all be good."  Same attitude before we got drubbed 40-0 by the Cowboys last year on opening game.

His judgment is terrible.

Also his prep is terrible.  His in game adjustments are terrible.

I know I've said this a bazillion times already: Schoen and Daboll had to show Mara, the only person who wanted Jones and had the influence to make it happen, that Jones was not the answer.

Benching Jones too early would not have proven it. Bringing in a better backup would not have proven it. Jones needed to play and leave no doubt that this team was doomed with him at QB.

I do not disagree with you on Daboll's questionable calls and prep.

I will stand on this: put a better QB on this exact roster in place of Jones at the beginning of the season and I guarantee the record isn't 2-13.

Quote from: Philosophers on December 24, 2024, 12:42:26 PMI am not specifically calling you out.  Dabs could have benched DJ.  He could have demanded a QB be drafted last year.  Instead he went in laissez-faire like, "it's cool.  It will all be good."  Same attitude before we got drubbed 40-0 by the Cowboys last year on opening game.

His judgment is terrible.

Also his prep is terrible.  His in game adjustments are terrible.

Ben Johnson could be HC with this same roster and it wouldn't be much different IMO.

Quote from: MrGap92 on December 24, 2024, 12:50:14 PMBen Johnson could be HC with this same roster and it wouldn't be much different IMO.

Because we have no QB.

Quote from: T200 on December 24, 2024, 12:51:26 PMBecause we have no QB.

Bingo     

Quote from: T200 on December 24, 2024, 12:49:03 PMI know I've said this a bazillion times already: Schoen and Daboll had to show Mara, the only person who wanted Jones and had the influence to make it happen, that Jones was not the answer.

Benching Jones too early would not have proven it. Bringing in a better backup would not have proven it. Jones needed to play and leave no doubt that this team was doomed with him at QB.

I do not disagree with you on Daboll's questionable calls and prep.

I will stand on this: put a better QB on this exact roster in place of Jones at the beginning of the season and I guarantee the record isn't 2-13.

It wont be 2-13 but it wont be 9-6 either.  Everything from philosophy on down needs to be changed.  Things like "winning preseason matters 100% to foster a winning culture."

Los Angeles Chargers were 5-12 last season with key players on team.  They needed a philosophical change and better game preparation and in game adjustments to be the team they are now which is chasing the playoffs.  Giants need all that plus a QB, Ol players, another WR, a true #1 boundary CB and a run stuffing D.

Quote from: Philosophers on December 24, 2024, 01:27:51 PMIt wont be 2-13 but it wont be 9-6 either.  Everything from philosophy on down needs to be changed.  Things like "winning preseason matters 100% to foster a winning culture."

Los Angeles Chargers were 5-12 last season with key players on team.  They needed a philosophical change and better game preparation and in game adjustments to be the team they are now which is chasing the playoffs.  Giants need all that plus a QB, Ol players, another WR, a true #1 boundary CB and a run stuffing D.

I do agree that pre-season should be spent more on the starters versus evaluating fringe players. They are already short one game and they need to be ready for Week 1 as much as possible.

The Chargers had a QB in place. Denver had a veteran that Payton didn't want and went for who he did want.

Payton was able to walk in the door and say, "I don't want Russ" because he was a proven winner. Schoen and Daboll didn't have the credentials to force a stance on Mara.

Quote from: T200 on December 24, 2024, 01:43:26 PMI do agree that pre-season should be spent more on the starters versus evaluating fringe players. They are already short one game and they need to be ready for Week 1 as much as possible.

The Chargers had a QB in place. Denver had a veteran that Payton didn't want and went for who he did want.

Payton was able to walk in the door and say, "I don't want Russ" because he was a proven winner. Schoen and Daboll didn't have the credentials to force a stance on Mara.

Chargers were 5-12 last year with Justin Herbert

Quote from: Philosophers on December 24, 2024, 03:07:39 PMChargers were 5-12 last year with Justin Herbert

Good QB with a good coach equals success. In today's NFL, one or the other isn't enough. A team needs both.

I know people are concerned about the record the past two years. I'm not. We haven't had a QB. People are so wanting to fire Daboll that they can't admit that the QB was most responsible for holding this offense back for two years.

That doesn't mean Daboll is some offensive savant. He's made plenty of mistakes. I just think he's capable of much more with the right QB.

Quote from: T200 on December 24, 2024, 03:23:31 PMGood QB with a good coach equals success. In today's NFL, one or the other isn't enough. A team needs both.

I know people are concerned about the record the past two years. I'm not. We haven't had a QB. People are so wanting to fire Daboll that they can't admit that the QB was most responsible for holding this offense back for two years.

That doesn't mean Daboll is some offensive savant. He's made plenty of mistakes. I just think he's capable of much more with the right QB.

I don't want to go round and round, but I don't think Daboll has proven anything either with the Bills, Alabama or with the Giants. 

Quote from: Philosophers on December 24, 2024, 03:37:21 PMI don't want to go round and round, but I don't think Daboll has proven anything either with the Bills, Alabama or with the Giants. 

I get it and I respect that view.

We'll see soon enough if he gets another opportunity to change your mind.

Quote from: T200 on December 24, 2024, 03:42:59 PMI get it and I respect that view.

We'll see soon enough if he gets another opportunity to change your mind.

All of us here are happy to be wrong if it means team success.