Big Blue Huddle

Ok folks, I have been on the fence about Daboll and would have liked to see him return with a new QB, but after yesterday's game, I am sick to my stomach and didn't sleep all last night. Sure it is Daboll's job to win football games but when we are in the position to MAYBE see any light at the end of this miserable tunnel, what does he do, Win another meaningless football game. I really couldn't believe what I was seeing. How this Colts team was ever in the position it was is beyond me. They can't play defense, can't tackle, can't rush the passer. Nothing. We worked so hard to be #1 in the draft, even snatching losing from victory when a sure FG was blocked, to be now in this same position we have been in for way too many years. Come on, Daboll knew the situation, Daboll knew this game would mean nothing if he returns. Again, I know it's his job to win football games but he and maybe the rest of the team are the only ones happy about this. I'll bet there isn't ONE damn Giants fan around that is pleased that we won yesterday. NOT ONE. Daboll should have played the game, run the ball as much as possible, pulled Nabors after he got to 100 catches, and let the Colts walk away with a win and solidify our position to get out of these Wilderness years.
Look, I admit, as I posted at the beginning of this year, I have been a fan for over 70+ years and I admitted that I would openly root for them to lose as I have been through just too many years when something like this happens, win meaningless games to kill any chance of a great draft pick. It all was working perfectly until Daboll came along and wanted to win another meaningless game. I took no pleasure out of rooting for the Giants to lose, but as I am 78+ years old, I don't have the luxury of waiting another 10 years to get better. I want action now.
So where do we go now? I can just see us winning n Philly next week and dropping us out of the top ten and Daboll will celebrate. Bull. Fire him now, pull every starter next week, and see what we have for next year. Nabors doesn't play. So what is our next plan, shell out draft picks to move up to draft a not-so-great QB, way overpay for some guy who is having a banner year and will put us in cap hell for another few years?
If I were Schoen, I would be on the phone with the Vikings, throwing out a low-draft pick at them for McCarthy. He is the only legit QB we can have without a pick. And those who want to lower the boom on Schoen, who is also probably cursing under his breath, as to what is he to do now when all the plans were in the works. He will have to overpay or have to move up to get any QB. And, please don't tell me Lock will be the guy.
So I've rambled on. I just had to get this off my chest as I said I was up all night just being pissed.
Daboll must go and I will join all who have posted this before. He is elated we are now 3-13 and possibly 4-13 for what, so we can now suck for the next few more years. We will not be in this position next year as we will win a few more games but still be a crap football team dreaming of that franchise QB that will still allude us. How can I go another year rooting against the Giants?
The Wilderness will continue as long as Daboll is here.

While I am on the topic of Daboll, I was talking with my son about him. He brought up a very interesting point, really, under Daboll's leadership, name me ONE darn player who really has gotten better by him or anyone on his staff. Ignore the rookie class because we will see if they get better next year, but in Daboll's 3 years here, what player have we really seen improvement from? Lawrence was always good, Thibs and Neal are becoming busts. WHO has shown significant improvement under Daboll's regime? NO ONE that's who.

He needs to go now and bring in a new coaching staff that teaches and helps guys become better football players.

Quote from: LennG on December 30, 2024, 12:57:35 PMWhile I am on the topic of Daboll, I was talking with my son about him. He brought up a very interesting point, really, under Daboll's leadership, name me ONE darn player who really has gotten better by him or anyone on his staff. Ignore the rookie class because we will see if they get better next year, but in Daboll's 3 years here, what player have we really seen improvement from? Lawrence was always good, Thibs and Neal are becoming busts. WHO has shown significant improvement under Daboll's regime? NO ONE that's who.

He needs to go now and bring in a new coaching staff that teaches and helps guys become better football players.

Lenn,

I'm not sure it's fair to remove the rookie class from the discussion; it's objectionably the NFLs best.  Doesn't Daball get credit for any of thier success?  I also think it's important to note the Giants have turned-over 95% of thier roster in the last 3 years.  Working under the constraints you instructed, here are the players who got better:

Dex - Went from good to AP
Andre Thomas - Went from average to the NFLs Top 2 best T
Bobby Okereke  - Went from average to very good
Dane Belton
Micah McFadden
Jason Pinnock
Cor'Dale Flott
Greg Van Roten - His 66 PFF grade was very serviceable

Quote from: LennG on December 30, 2024, 12:57:35 PMWhile I am on the topic of Daboll, I was talking with my son about him. He brought up a very interesting point, really, under Daboll's leadership, name me ONE darn player who really has gotten better by him or anyone on his staff. Ignore the rookie class because we will see if they get better next year, but in Daboll's 3 years here, what player have we really seen improvement from? Lawrence was always good, Thibs and Neal are becoming busts. WHO has shown significant improvement under Daboll's regime? NO ONE that's who.

He needs to go now and bring in a new coaching staff that teaches and helps guys become better football players.

MIcah MCFadden , Here is one Jason Pinnock is two

Quote from: LennG on December 30, 2024, 12:57:35 PMWhile I am on the topic of Daboll, I was talking with my son about him. He brought up a very interesting point, really, under Daboll's leadership, name me ONE darn player who really has gotten better by him or anyone on his staff. Ignore the rookie class because we will see if they get better next year, but in Daboll's 3 years here, what player have we really seen improvement from? Lawrence was always good, Thibs and Neal are becoming busts. WHO has shown significant improvement under Daboll's regime? NO ONE that's who.

He needs to go now and bring in a new coaching staff that teaches and helps guys become better football players.

The only one that has really improved is Dex.  Of course, that is because Wink brought in one of the best D-line coaches in the business, Andre Patterson.  Beyond that, the players that have joined the Giants have tended to play worse or not develop as expected.

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 30, 2024, 01:26:48 PMThe only one that has really improved is Dex.  Of course, that is because Wink brought in one of the best D-line coaches in the business, Andre Patterson.  Beyond that, the players that have joined the Giants have tended to play worse or not develop as expected.

Daboll hired Patterson

In fact Patterson was hired before Wink

Quote from: MrGap92 on December 30, 2024, 01:33:43 PMDaboll hired Patterson

In fact Patterson was hired before Wink

Wink was hired on the 8th of February.

Patterson was hired on the 10th of February

Len

Can you see the irony of calling for  a football coach to be fired because he won a football game?

And wouldn't the NFL have a responsibility to step in and monitor a team deliberately trying to lose a football game?   Wouldn't that be like point shaving in basketball where players were imprisoned for being involved??

It it what it is>  Players play--it is their livelihood.  Hopefully draft position is in the mindset of the fans and not the players.  Don't we expect the players on the team we root for to play the game balls out every time they take the field??

Dumpster Dan

Quote from: LennG on December 30, 2024, 12:57:35 PMWhile I am on the topic of Daboll, I was talking with my son about him. He brought up a very interesting point, really, under Daboll's leadership, name me ONE darn player who really has gotten better by him or anyone on his staff. Ignore the rookie class because we will see if they get better next year, but in Daboll's 3 years here, what player have we really seen improvement from? Lawrence was always good, Thibs and Neal are becoming busts. WHO has shown significant improvement under Daboll's regime? NO ONE that's who.

He needs to go now and bring in a new coaching staff that teaches and helps guys become better football players.

Lenn: I was with you through most of both notes (because we're both old enough to KNOW how long a trip to "the wilderness" can last, and guys like LT and Eli don't fall to the Giants - IMO one of the unluckiest NFL teams of my lifetime - very often).

But not so fast on Thibodeaux. He has responsibilities other than getting sacks and (to his credit and my utter amazement, he sets the edge well and gets a lot of pressure on QB's, both of which probably go un-noticed by the majority of fans).  I had serious doubts about him being able and willing to do the hard grunt type of work needed to be a true three-down defensive end in the NFL.  IMO, he is a "so far, so good" player.

Other than that, I want you to also consider one thing... IMO it's not like we're out of the running for Peyton Manning here. Each of this year's QB's has one or two serious question-marks. Only time will tell, but it's possible we could be counting our lucky stars that we didn't have the top pick. I sure as heck don't want it this year unless they're willing to endure Barkley-level criticism and take Travis Hunter or another of the one or two TRUE "can't-miss" players.  In one short sentence, there are no "can't-miss" QB's in this year's draft.

Bob

Not because the Giants finally won a game yesterday, although that doesn't help, but because they have gotten WORSE every season under his watch and this team never looks prepared to play.
His game management is horrible.
I also think his QB coaching skills are vastly overrated.
I would love to see a new HC to start next season.

I don't have a firm opinion about Brian Daboll although I have noted what appears to have been a team ill-prepared to start the season these past 2 years. Of course, that is in stark contrast to the Giants 6-1/7-2 start in 2022.

I expect Joe Schoen to remain the Giants GM through at least next season, thus I would expect that to be so of Daboll as HC as well. I should also say that I find yesterday's team effort and offensive explosion to be indicative of the benefit of a deep passing game, and possibly also of the players approval of and support for Brian Daboll.

Cheers! 

Quote from: kingm56 on December 30, 2024, 01:06:01 PMLenn,

I'm not sure it's fair to remove the rookie class from the discussion; it's objectionably the NFLs best.  Doesn't Daball get credit for any of thier success?  I also think it's important to note the Giants have turned-over 95% of thier roster in the last 3 years.  Working under the constraints you instructed, here are the players who got better:

Dex - Went from good to AP
Andre Thomas - Went from average to the NFLs Top 2 best T
Bobby Okereke  - Went from average to very good
Dane Belton
Micah McFadden
Jason Pinnock
Cor'Dale Flott
Greg Van Roten - His 66 PFF grade was very serviceable

Thomas was our best OL before Daboll got here. He WAS always good, do you really think under Daboll's watch he got better? He would have gotten better under anyone's watch, he is just that good.
No way you can include Dex in here, another player that was always great, Daboll did nothing to improve that.
As good as McFadden has played, do you really think we win a championship with him in the middle? With him there we can't stop the run, isn't that the main job of the MLB? I like McFadden, but how many other teams would he be a starter? Good player on a bad team.

Look, Daboll has taken on the responsibility of the offense. Do you really think the offense has gotten better or worse under his watch?

Quote from: Dumpster Dan on December 30, 2024, 01:56:34 PMLen

Can you see the irony of calling for  a football coach to be fired because he won a football game?

And wouldn't the NFL have a responsibility to step in and monitor a team deliberately trying to lose a football game?   Wouldn't that be like point shaving in basketball where players were imprisoned for being involved??

It it what it is>  Players play--it is their livelihood.  Hopefully draft position is in the mindset of the fans and not the players.  Don't we expect the players on the team we root for to play the game balls out every time they take the field??

Dumpster Dan

Dan

 You have a much bigger urgency than I, but come on, aren't you a bit pissed that we won this game? Gosh darn (and that is just for this posting) how many years do we do this same bull****, win meaningless games, and celebrate them? Where are the wins in Se pt, Oct, or even Nov? We need games in December that mean something, not some stupid meaningless win over a terrible Colts team, and then celebrate it.
BTW Jim would crucify me for even saying that.     

Quote from: Bob In PA on December 30, 2024, 02:01:20 PMLenn: I was with you through most of both notes (because we're both old enough to KNOW how long a trip to "the wilderness" can last, and guys like LT and Eli don't fall to the Giants - IMO one of the unluckiest NFL teams of my lifetime - very often).

But not so fast on Thibodeaux. He has responsibilities other than getting sacks and (to his credit and my utter amazement, he sets the edge well and gets a lot of pressure on QB's, both of which probably go un-noticed by the majority of fans).  I had serious doubts about him being able and willing to do the hard grunt type of work needed to be a true three-down defensive end in the NFL.  IMO, he is a "so far, so good" player.

Other than that, I want you to also consider one thing... IMO it's not like we're out of the running for Peyton Manning here. Each of this year's QB's has one or two serious question-marks. Only time will tell, but it's possible we could be counting our lucky stars that we didn't have the top pick. I sure as heck don't want it this year unless they're willing to endure Barkley-level criticism and take Travis Hunter or another of the one or two TRUE "can't-miss" players.  In one short sentence, there are no "can't-miss" QB's in this year's draft.

Bob

Bob

I was just using Thibs as an example, but sorry, he is a good e example. Do you think his game has grown under  Daboll? Shouldn't a #5 draft pick, who does have the tools to be exceptional, be more of a presence on the football field? He disappears for too many games during the year. Again, do you think his game has improved each year under Daboll? I don't. I think with a better coach he has the tools to dominate, but his development has been stunted by poor coaching.

LennG

Best wishes always..that said..Joe Schoen has to go. ..next week..if he doesn't..it will bury the Giants even further..as Niecthzie said..when you start into the abyss..it may be looking back at you..it's about self awareness. And they have none as an organization..lifted..catered..sad the situations..but clueless..in 7 billion dollars ownership bliss.