Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Painter on January 07, 2025, 05:39:32 PMWho gives a xxxx; it's done. How about substituting some good will and good wishes toward a better future instead the seemingly endless bitching, moaning, and adolescent whining. If you can't grow a pair, at least try to grow up a little bit. GeeezisKrice. 

Cheers!

https://giantsfans.net/message_board/index.php?topic=71948.0

Quote from: Painter on January 07, 2025, 05:39:32 PMWho gives a xxxx; it's done. How about substituting some good will and good wishes toward a better future instead the seemingly endless bitching, moaning, and adolescent whining. If you can't grow a pair, at least try to grow up a little bit. GeeezisKrice. 

Cheers!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep-xgd_eETE


Let's go boys!!!

Schoen does not have an eye for O line, CB and Pass-rusher talent; Mara doesnt have an eye for GM talent ---> we are doomed 

Quote from: coggs on January 07, 2025, 04:07:54 PMPossibility, but I think it is more than that.  I honestly think this is a group effort and a case of too many chefs in the kitchen.

My opinion on how I think things have played out is that they (schoen, daboll, john mara, chris mara, mcconnell, and whoever else has a seat at the table and cant be fired) came to a consensus to not pick up the 5th year on Jones.  Then, 2022 happened.  They had no choice but to get a deal done with him as they had no young QB to step in and they were picking too late to get one to come and start.  FA market at the time was bare.  Franchise tag was not an option as the cap was a mess.  Had to get creative and knew they had him for 2 years if it went south as that is how the deal was set up.  I don't think Barkley wanted to be here.  Tried to extend him in 2022, he wouldnt sign.  They franchised him and let him walk.  He saw the writing on the wall and knew he would never have a season like he had while here.  I remember one of the wfan guys saying Belichick said something like, "everyone knew he was going to the Eagles..."  If I was a stud RB, I would want to go there too.  Anyways, I think the consortium was all on the same page after a few games that it was time to move from Jones, just had to give it some time and furthermore I think they all knew that starting Lock or DeVito was not going to make things better.  Just had to make it clear they were moving on.

As far as last year's draft, think they liked Williams, Daniels, and Maye for their 1st pick, but did not want Pennix, Nix, McCarthy at 6.  If they could have taken them later, maybe they do it.  Here is where I think people are misreading things.  I agree Nix or Pennix would make them better this year.  I have said a million times that with even below average QB play (by nfl standards) they would have been 5-1 after 6 games.  With one of them at QB, I think it is possible they would have a game this weekend.  However, is that good enough?  Being an upgrade over Jones does not take much.  Are either of them a QB that can get you Super Bowls?  I am not so sure.  Play-offs? Yes, with the right surroundings.  Play-offs year-in year-out almost as a formality?  Dont think so.  Serious contender every year? Dont think so. 

I also dont think he is going to be desperate.  Last thing we need is Mara giving an ultimatum to make the playoffs or win 10 games or he is gone.  Do we really want a repeat of 2016 where Reese went nuts in FA to save himself, got to the wild card, got their asses kicked and then sucked for 4 years after?  Do we want this cycle of every few years catching lightning in a bottle with a decent season, no championship and then back to sucking for a few years because you put yourself in cap hell for 2026, 2027, 2028 because you had to get creative with the numbers to sign all the guys you wanted for 2025?  I sure as hell dont. 

I agree with all of this. It's just an impossible sell to tell the owner and the fans that 2022 was a mirage and we gotta move on from Jones. Which means riding with Tyrod Taylor or somebody of his caliber for a year and suffering through that in order to get a QB on the backend.

It's what they should have done but how do you justify that to people (owners) who saw Jones play his best season and the Giants win a playoff game? A lot of the people calling for his head now would have been calling for his head had he just let Jones walk after 2022 but he'd have been right to do it.

Quote from: Gmo11 on January 07, 2025, 07:37:47 PMI agree with all of this. It's just an impossible sell to tell the owner and the fans that 2022 was a mirage and we gotta move on from Jones. Which means riding with Tyrod Taylor or somebody of his caliber for a year and suffering through that in order to get a QB on the backend.

It's what they should have done but how do you justify that to people (owners) who saw Jones play his best season and the Giants win a playoff game? A lot of the people calling for his head now would have been calling for his head had he just let Jones walk after 2022 but he'd have been right to do it.

Taylor was a better QB than Jones. Everyone knew that in the locker room.

If this is true that Mara has put a mandate on Schoen and Daboll, that it is either playoffs or bust, and if they miss the playoffs your fired is the worst thing he could have done.

Now Schoen and Daboll will be panicking and stressed out to get a QB, instead of taking their time and finding the right QB at the right time.

This can lead to multiple disastrous situations.

A) They give up a boat load of 1st and 2nd rd picks to move up to get either Sanders or Ward, who most are saying are not franchise QB's.

or

B) They panic and sign an either aging or slightly above average QB to an insane contract so that they have someone who can start as a last-ditch effort to save their jobs.

Either way this is not the most efficient way to address the most important position.

The best time to find your next franchise QB is either.

A) Tank the season in a loaded QB draft to get your guy, (see 2024) without giving up the farm.

or

B) Developing a QB slowly when you already have a franchise guy at the helm.

or

C) Signing a franchise QB in his prime and you know he wants to come to your team and will thrive in your system.

I am now fearing that 2025 may be even worse than 2024, especially if the team wins too many games, doesn't make the playoffs, and once again has no shot and drafting an elite QB coming out in the draft.

However, these are just my thoughts and opinions.

Quote from: sxdxca38 on January 07, 2025, 08:30:20 PMIf this is true that Mara has put a mandate on Schoen and Daboll, that it is either playoffs or bust, and if they miss the playoffs your fired is the worst thing he could have done.

Now Schoen and Daboll will be panicking and stressed out to get a QB, instead of taking their time and finding the right QB at the right time.

This can lead to multiple disastrous situations.

A) They give up a boat load of 1st and 2nd rd picks to move up to get either Sanders or Ward, who most are saying are not franchise QB's.

or

B) They panic and sign an either aging or slightly above average QB to an insane contract so that they have someone who can start as a last-ditch effort to save their jobs.

Either way this is not the most efficient way to address the most important position.

The best time to find your next franchise QB is either.

A) Tank the season in a loaded QB draft to get your guy, (see 2024) without giving up the farm.

or

B) Developing a QB slowly when you already have a franchise guy at the helm.

or

C) Signing a franchise QB in his prime and you know he wants to come to your team and will thrive in your system.

I am now fearing that 2025 may be even worse than 2024, especially if the team wins too many games, doesn't make the playoffs, and once again has no shot and drafting an elite QB coming out in the draft.

However, these are just my thoughts and opinions.

The bottom line is Mara thinks they've done a shitty job, Schoen and Daboll, but he just is too lazy and unmotivated to do what is necessary. He has lived a sheltered life for all his life. He has very little clue how things work in the real world. The best thing would be for him to hire someone to make the complicated decisions for him. Be just a figurehead. That's our only hope as Giant fans.

I don't know, I'm not as down on the franchise as most. Daboll can coach, the QB's he has developed show that, 2022 shows that. I think we are 6 players away from. Making the playoff. Let me preface that with 6 good players and depth.

Qb- a bridge Qb or an average qb placeholder

CB1 Travis hunter or Will Johnson

CB2- a FA signing ala Ward, Reed, Adebo, Samuel Jr

DT- draft pick or FA signing though the FA class is not good

RG- whether it's a FA signing or draft pick, the FA market is really really good here

Edge 3- someone to keep Kt and Burns fresh


Smaller needs another safety, oline depth, and Wr

I think if you can get those 6 players and have them be good or even great this is a playoff team.

I've stated my hope to start over..but Mara is completely lost, tired and incapable to save this franchise. Pays lip service to it; and this stay of execution just delays the inevitable. I'm not whining or crapping on this decision, guys. ive been crapped on enough by this organization.

I've tuned out from the clown car named 

Quote from: spiderblue43 on January 07, 2025, 10:14:59 PMI've stated my hope to start over..but Mara is completely lost, tired and incapable to save this franchise. Pays lip service to it; and this stay of execution just delays the inevitable. I'm not whining or crapping on this decision, guys. ive been crapped on enough by this organization.

I've tuned out from the clown car named 

Do you think the franchise is doomed until ownership changes?

Quote from: katkavage on January 07, 2025, 08:09:25 PMTaylor was a better QB than Jones. Everyone knew that in the locker room.

I know.  I think THEY know and that's the primary reason they didn't bring him back for this season.  They needed a backup worse than Jones.  That's tough to find!

Quote from: T200 on January 08, 2025, 08:07:54 AMDo you think the franchise is doomed until ownership changes?

The more likely hope is he just stops meddling completely in the football decisions.  His father was clueless and he appears even worse.  Let your football people try running things. 

Quote from: Messiah717 on January 08, 2025, 09:45:17 AMThe more likely hope is he just stops meddling completely in the football decisions.  His father was clueless and he appears even worse.  Let your football people try running things. 

I agree and that's been my stance for some time now.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on January 07, 2025, 09:59:06 PMI don't know, I'm not as down on the franchise as most. Daboll can coach, the QB's he has developed show that, 2022 shows that. I think we are 6 players away from. Making the playoff. Let me preface that with 6 good players and depth.

Qb- a bridge Qb or an average qb placeholder

CB1 Travis hunter or Will Johnson

CB2- a FA signing ala Ward, Reed, Adebo, Samuel Jr

DT- draft pick or FA signing though the FA class is not good

RG- whether it's a FA signing or draft pick, the FA market is really really good here

Edge 3- someone to keep Kt and Burns fresh


Smaller needs another safety, oline depth, and Wr

I think if you can get those 6 players and have them be good or even great this is a playoff team.

I would add a high end swing OT to the must get list, but that is a pretty good summary of needs.

Here is the thing: we spent the last 6 years under Daniel Jones talking about how having a middle-of-the-pack QB isn't good enough that you need to have a  top 10 QB or preferably an elite 5 QB.

A bridge QB, by definition, is someone who would rank in the bottom half of the league, with the best maybe bridge QB being around 20th (give or take).  So, ultimately, the QB answer comes from the draft.  There is arguably two QBs with potential (the odds don't seem great, but there is at least some potential) in Ward and Sanders.  Picking 3 means the odds are not great either will be available when the Giants pick 3rd.   So either the Giants trade the farm to move up to select a questionable QB prospect 1st or 2nd, or they wait until next year and hope that things work out somehow where they are able to get their franchise QB then.   I guess if the Giants could engineer a trade that gives them two first-rounders in next year's draft, that might improve the odds of acquiring a franchise QB in 2026, but barring that, I don't know how good the odds of fixing QB in 2026 will be, nor will Daboll and company likely be around to develop said QB in 2026.

Quote from: MightyGiants on January 08, 2025, 10:01:22 AMI would add a high end swing OT to the must get list, but that is a pretty good summary of needs.

Here is the thing: we spent the last 6 years under Daniel Jones talking about how having a middle-of-the-pack QB isn't good enough that you need to have a  top 10 QB or preferably an elite 5 QB.

A bridge QB, by definition, is someone who would rank in the bottom half of the league, with the best maybe bridge QB being around 20th (give or take).  So, ultimately, the QB answer comes from the draft.  There is arguably two QBs with potential (the odds don't seem great, but there is at least some potential) in Ward and Sanders.  Picking 3 means the odds are not great either will be available when the Giants pick 3rd.   So either the Giants trade the farm to move up to select a questionable QB prospect 1st or 2nd, or they wait until next year and hope that things work out somehow where they are able to get their franchise QB then.   I guess if the Giants could engineer a trade that gives them two first-rounders in next year's draft, that might improve the odds of acquiring a franchise QB in 2026, but barring that, I don't know how good the odds of fixing QB in 2026 will be, nor will Daboll and company likely be around to develop said QB in 2026.

I'm not a fan of acquiring another 1st round pick next year with the specific intention of trying to use it to trade up.  Because the teams that are bad enough to pick at the top almost always are looking for a QB themselves.  Which makes sense, if you don't have a QB you're going to be pretty damn bad (not exactly breaking news around these parts).  What happened with the Patriots this year is pretty rare. 

So now you're trying to trade with a team that also needs a QB and those teams won't budge. Giants looked into Washington/New England last year to try and get Maye or Daniels and both those teams told them to piss off.  Rightfully so.  So that means regardless of whether they acquire the 18th pick in the draft along with their own pick there's a better than even chance the teams they try to trade with tell them to piss off again. 

I don't mind them trading back and acquiring more picks this season or next, I just don't think you do it as if you're stock piling stuff to make a big move for a QB next year.  I would prefer they do it because they really like Dart or Milroe and know that a team (Raiders?) might REALLY like Travis Hunter and be willing to pay for him.  So they move back once or maybe even twice they take their QB and still have a bunch of other picks to use to fortify other holes. 

The timeline really suggests they need to get a QB this season get him into the system and get him playing time before guys like Thomas/Lawrence are past their primes or guys like Nabers decide enough of this and get the hell out of town (like Barkley).